# For opponents of SSM, how do you react to seeing images/video of happy gay couples being married? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 10, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602 "2012-12-10T15:23:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/141 "2012-12-13T09:00:41Z")
> [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > “There is ‘our people’ and there is ‘your people.’ Your people have held all the power since time uncountable, but your time is coming to a close. For untold generations, you have spit on us; soon the time will come when we will spit on you. You have worn your manhood and your skin color and your accent and your passport as a symbol of power; soon it will become the mark of Caine upon your face. You have held us down, but soon enough we will rise up and destroy you, and avenge ourselves a thousand times over on your people, and you.” > > It’s absurd, I know. If I had been born in the 40s, I would probably feel the same way about integration and de-segregation and inter-racial marriage, yet from hindsight I have no problem with any of those things. But here I am today, and every time I see such a celebration, I cannot help but hear them cry, “We are moving on up!” And in my head, I can always fill in the second line - “and we will cast you down.” Shhhh, don’t give away our plans, dude. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/142 "2012-12-13T10:25:56Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I just find PDA disgusting, full stop, whatever the gender or orientation of the participants. I am a prude what can I say. Sour grapes? Seriously, dude, the traditional kiss to seal the wedding is prompted by the clergyman who performed the ceremony, and it’s the same beautiful sentiment that triggers the awww’s, applause, and flashbulbs. Calling that chaste kiss disgusting tells us more about you than you may have intended. ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/143 "2012-12-13T11:25:34Z")
> [@Troppus](#): > > Sour grapes? Seriously, dude, the traditional kiss to seal the wedding is prompted by the clergyman who performed the ceremony, and it’s the same beautiful sentiment that triggers the awww’s, applause, and flashbulbs. Calling that chaste kiss disgusting tells us more about you than you may have intended. Maybe I’m naive, but in his defense he was responding to me, and I was not referring to the couple kissing at a wedding but rather to explicit PDAs out in the public space. And I have no problem with a couple kissing to seal their wedding, regardless of the gender makeup of said couple. It’s just a scripted peck anyway. 🙂 I don’t consider that a “PDA.” ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/144 "2012-12-13T13:41:48Z")
> [@Noone\_Special](#): > > Maybe I’m naive, but in his defense he was responding to me, and I was not referring to the couple kissing at a wedding but rather to explicit PDAs out in the public space. > And I have no problem with a couple kissing to seal their wedding, regardless of the gender makeup of said couple. It’s just a scripted peck anyway. 🙂 I don’t consider that a “PDA.” I assumed you both were referring to the OP’s remarks about “ecstatic couples getting married” as seen in recent media. My response was caustic, but I’d be truly sad for any observer made squirmy by a simple wedding kiss. Apologies for misunderstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/145 "2012-12-13T14:05:40Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Dumb. > > If you read even a single post of mine in this thread, you’d know I never asked why he thought same sex marriage was wrong. I even explicitly stated I’m not interested in why he thinks it’s wrong, but want to know why he thinks it should be against the law. Like I said, I’m guessing Jesusosity has something to do with it. I’ve met religious people before, you know? I’m not _gasp_ shocked that there are people in this world who think homosexuality is a bad thing. What I’d like to know why someone thinks its badness should make same sex marriage against the law. The \*only \*thing I asked is why he thinks it should be allowed, not what he thinks is wrong with it. Two very different questions. > > And for the record, refusing to answer a simple question and instead saying “Search through my post history for your answer” is enormously stupid as fuck. Just so you know. OK. Because of apples and Technetium, that’s why. Now, can we move on? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/146 "2012-12-13T14:13:29Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > OK. > Because of apples and Technetium, that’s why. > Now, can we move on? I did a quick search. For those who are interested, near as I can tell, Aji is a Roman Catholic and his views happen to agree with the official view of his Church. SSM is bad because it expands the definition if marriage which somehow harms traditional marriage. I am having a difficult time following that logic but I think that it’s something like change to a very special, sacred and long lasting historical thing is a bad thing because it makes it less sacred. ---
**Author:** ![Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aji_de_gallina/32/260_2.png) [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aji_de_Gallina)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/147 "2012-12-13T15:08:43Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I did a quick search. For those who are interested, near as I can tell, Aji is a Roman Catholic and his views happen to agree with the official view of his Church. SSM is bad because it expands the definition if marriage which somehow harms traditional marriage. I am having a difficult time following that logic but I think that it’s something like change to a very special, sacred and long lasting historical thing is a bad thing because it makes it less sacred. So, apparently, it wasn’t that hard to search. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/148 "2012-12-13T15:23:11Z")
> [@Aji\_de\_Gallina](#): > > So, apparently, it wasn’t that hard to search. Nope. It took me about five minutes. I don’t think that anyone was claiming that it was difficult though. Even easier than the search was typing it out and not being a pill about it. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/149 "2012-12-13T15:25:52Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > Making out shouldn’t be done at all. Gross. Seriously? ---
**Author:** ![taskmgr.exe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@taskmgr.exe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/taskmgr.exe)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/150 "2012-12-13T16:05:37Z")
> [@](#): > > how do you react to seeing images/video of happy gay couples being married? I LOL inside me and smile at them openly. 🙂 I wish everyone was gay. ---
**Author:** ![Blackberry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecd19e/32.png) [@Blackberry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackberry)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/151 "2012-12-13T18:56:32Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Seriously? Just a tiny bit. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2012, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/152 "2012-12-13T22:47:27Z")
> [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > But as a straight, white male from a conservative, aristocratic, Christian background - even though I am neither conservative, nor Christian, nor even really very aristocratic anymore - whenever I see gay couples marry, or see a celebration of political and social progress for the homosexual community, or anything like that, to my heart, it is always tinged with this other meaning, this message I feel I receive from them. That other meaning can be best summarized as follows. > > “There is ‘our people’ and there is ‘your people.’ Your people have held all the power since time uncountable, but your time is coming to a close. For untold generations, you have spit on us; soon the time will come when we will spit on you. You have worn your manhood and your skin color and your accent and your passport as a symbol of power; soon it will become the mark of Caine upon your face. You have held us down, but soon enough we will rise up and destroy you, and avenge ourselves a thousand times over on your people, and you.” > > It’s absurd, I know. If I had been born in the 40s, I would probably feel the same way about integration and de-segregation and inter-racial marriage, yet from hindsight I have no problem with any of those things. But here I am today, and every time I see such a celebration, I cannot help but hear them cry, “We are moving on up!” And in my head, I can always fill in the second line - “and we will cast you down.” This is really freaking sad, and even sadder, not new. I’m bewildered by this fear that I’ve heard expressed only from WASP men that all this minority preaching and protesting is about **revenge** in our hearts. How silly. When god invents magic, I’ll place you guys in a minority’s shoes for a week, and you’ll realize very quickly that we don’t want a fight. We just want equality. That’s it. > [@hajario](#): > > Nope. It took me about five minutes. I don’t think that anyone was claiming that it was difficult though. Even easier than the search was typing it out and not being a pill about it. From here on, I’m going to post in threads about my opinions, and if anyone asks for clarification, I’m going to tell them to search my posts, and refuse to answer like a giant tit. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/153 "2012-12-14T00:26:56Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > This is really freaking sad, and even sadder, not new. I’m bewildered by this fear that I’ve heard expressed only from WASP men that all this minority preaching and protesting is about **revenge** in our hearts. How silly. When god invents magic, I’ll place you guys in a minority’s shoes for a week, and you’ll realize very quickly that we don’t want a fight. We just want equality. That’s it. I don’t know about our scholarly friend here but often when I hear it, it’s obvious that the unspoken bit at the end is “…because that’s what I’d do in that position.” Which says more about the speaker than the minorities. > [@](#): > > From here on, I’m going to post in threads about my opinions, and if anyone asks for clarification, I’m going to tell them to search my posts, and refuse to answer like a giant tit. You mean[like this?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7loP7OsLZ8) (Link NSFW but probably not in the way you’re expecting) ---
**Author:** ![Weeping\_Wyvern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/858c86/32.png) [@Weeping\_Wyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weeping_Wyvern)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/154 "2012-12-14T02:38:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > We can’t. Sorry. On this issue, your “differing opinion” is that I should be treated like a second class citizen. There’s really no way to have that debate and stay respectful, because you’re starting from a position that is inherently insulting and dehumanizing towards your opposition. I think it’s a huge stretch to claim that it’s insulting and dehumanizing to refrain from giving them a fancy piece of paper. In the event that I ever marry, I won’t particularly care if the government gives me one or not. > [@Troppus](#): > > I fail to see how what others do with those they love affects you in any way other than to put a dent in your dating pool. I never claimed it affected me, though. Voters and lawmakers are supposed to formulate policy based on what is right, not on what benefits them personally. > [@Troppus](#): > > Morality is a social concept which thankfully evolves with us and exists independently of the Bible. Elsewise slavery would be the norm, as would animal sacrifice, stoning, and other barbaric practices. The dearth of animal sacrifices in the West today has very little to do with evolving away from the Bible. Jews no longer perform sacrifices, not because their theology changed, but because the Temple in Jerusalem was uncomfortably destroyed in A.D. 70. And Christians don’t perform sacrifices, not because their theology changed, but because the founding document of the religion itself declares that such rituals are unnecessary. > [@Troppus](#): > > There is nothing immoral about sex between consenting adults. It’s a natural inclination for all living creatures. All living creatures? Ah, but what about the asexual community? We can’t be using discriminatory language now, can we? > [@Troppus](#): > > You mentioned conversion as if the default position of humans is to find error in homosexuality and that supporters must have been convinced to accept it. That isn’t true. Some of us have never given it a single thought, though some sheltered folks insulated by church or city life (homosexual behavior in animals is an unsurprising feature on farms, zoos, and the wild) may have needed some exposure to accept it. Oh I didn’t mean to imply that. I was just talking about converting sinister oppressors such as I. > [@tdn](#): > > I’m all for living together in peace and understanding. The paradox for me is that while I want peace and understanding for everyone, your version seems to want to exclude a significant segment of the population. How do you square that? It’s actually quite easy to square, because it’s not excluding anyone from peace and understanding. Nothing is preventing homosexual couples from engaging in non-violent conversation with their conservative neighbors (a number of whom are doubtless homosexual themselves). Now it’s true that I would exclude homosexual couples from civil marriage, but that’s not what you were asking about. ---
**Author:** ![Troppus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Troppus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troppus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/155 "2012-12-14T03:07:54Z")
Tell you what, WW, best way to show your disdain for that “fancy piece of paper” and the rights conveyed is to protest and refuse a civil marriage yourself. That’ll teach us! ---
**Author:** ![Scholar\_Beardpig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Scholar\_Beardpig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scholar_Beardpig)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/156 "2012-12-14T07:14:23Z")
EDIT: Try again in five minutes ---
**Author:** ![Scholar\_Beardpig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Scholar\_Beardpig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scholar_Beardpig)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/157 "2012-12-14T07:41:04Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I don’t know about our scholarly friend here but often when I hear it, it’s obvious that the unspoken bit at the end is “…because that’s what I’d do in that position.” Which says more about the speaker than the minorities. If I spent every day of my life suffering systematic discrimination from the government and society, I would feel an urge for vengeance and retributive justice that would infiltrate every cell in my body, and urge me to walk and talk like a gruesome ventriloquist dummy, driven forward by uncut malice. And I don’t deny the legitimacy of that anger, not in the slightest. I mean, tomorrow you might get what you want, but what is done by the pen may just as easily be undone by it, and I would demand the correction of the causes that made me such a victim in the first place. But even as I accept those feelings, I can’t shake the desire not to be a target of them… Hell, I _already_ feel that way, and all my grievences are petty and private. How could someone with a genuine grudge feel more forebearing about it than I do about mine? Does not compute. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/158 "2012-12-14T08:34:41Z")
> [@Weeping\_Wyvern](#): > > I think it’s a huge stretch to claim that it’s insulting and dehumanizing to refrain from giving them a fancy piece of paper. In the event that I ever marry, I won’t particularly care if the government gives me one or not. So… You don’t care if the government gives _you_ that fancy piece of paper, but somehow, it’s a big deal if the government gives _me_ that piece of paper? You’re really not doing your side a lot of favors with that line of argument. Anyway, it doesn’t really matter if you consider our position to be insulting to gays. The point is that gay people, overwhelmingly, find your position to be insulting. Which is why you’re not going to find your opinions greeted with a lot of “peace and understanding.” Because whatever feat of cognitive dissonance you manage to perform that makes it possible for you to believe that there’s a substantive difference between, “I don’t think you should be allowed to marry,” and “Go fuck yourself,” that feat only works within the confines of your own skull. No one else is going to find it remotely persuasive. ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/159 "2012-12-14T08:47:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > So… You don’t care if the government gives _you_ that fancy piece of paper, but somehow, it’s a big deal if the government gives _me_ that piece of paper? > > You’re really not doing your side a lot of favors with that line of argument. > > Anyway, it doesn’t really matter if you consider our position to be insulting to gays. The point is that gay people, overwhelmingly, find your position to be insulting. Which is why you’re not going to find your opinions greeted with a lot of “peace and understanding.” Because whatever feat of cognitive dissonance you manage to perform that makes it possible for you to believe that there’s a substantive difference between, “I don’t think you should be allowed to marry,” and “Go fuck yourself,” that feat only works within the confines of your own skull. No one else is going to find it remotely persuasive. The cognitive dissonance is always, “But you CAN get married! To a nice girl (or guy they are talking to a lady). No one is stopping you!” ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602/160 "2012-12-14T14:39:35Z")
> [@Scholar\_Beardpig](#): > > If I spent every day of my life suffering systematic discrimination from the government and society, I would feel an urge for vengeance and retributive justice that would infiltrate every cell in my body, and urge me to walk and talk like a gruesome ventriloquist dummy, driven forward by uncut malice. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-opponents-of-ssm-how-do-you-react-to-seeing-images-video-of-happy-gay-couples-being-married/643602.md?page=9)