# For post-modern posters, truth depends on who said it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 21, 2003, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740 "2003-08-21T18:29:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/21 "2003-08-21T20:09:36Z")
Yeah – I’m having trouble seeing how his latest trick doesn’t qualify him for a DO NOT TROLL warning, at the very least. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![whatami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/85f322/32.png) [@whatami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whatami)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/22 "2003-08-21T20:39:04Z")
I agree with **DanielWithrow**. If this doesn’t count as trolling, I’m not sure what does. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/23 "2003-08-21T20:51:40Z")
Hadn’t you heard? \*\* december’s \*\* a \* polite \* troll, so it doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/24 "2003-08-21T21:14:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > How the hell do you know we wouldn’t have said the same thing had we known it was from Clinton, anyways?\*\* > > \*\*You know it now. \*\* Like hell she does. Unless you’re claiming that your thread was proof positive of this, which it certainly is not. So answer her question. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/25 "2003-08-21T21:29:48Z")
I gotta say that other thread seemed pretty low, even for you **December**. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/26 "2003-08-21T21:35:44Z")
Other than the misattributed quote(the hillary part), which december has acknowledged and apologized for, in what way did he lie in his OP? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/27 "2003-08-21T21:39:15Z")
I have to admit to being tempted, several times, to do something like this, because I am frustrated by several posters that appear to base their support or disdain for a concept solely on whether it will help or hurt the political party they support. I have not noticed any particular tendency for this to be limited to those who support Democrats or those who support Republicans; I believe that **december** ’s “trick” would have worked equally well on [b[december\*\* himself in the other direction. Perhaps this is not surprising, since this behavior a mirror of actual politicians. I’ve said before how distressing it is to watch Democrats derail judicial nominations and Republicans cry foul, when less than a decade ago it was the Republicans derailing judicial nominations and the Democrats crying foul. Each side seems willing to bury their integrity for the sake of political expediency, and each seems confident that the public will simply forget their earlier, contradictory stances. It’s an ugly thing, perhaps the ugliest thing in politics. I agree, reluctantly, that **december** deserves criticism for the way he did this. But I also think that extremists on both sides ought to ask themselves if their party is really so important that it’s worth sacrificing their integrity to offer unconditional support. - Rick ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/28 "2003-08-21T21:41:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Leaper \* > \*\*… So answer her question. \*\* For that matter, answer (directly mind you) any question that you have been asked in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/29 "2003-08-21T21:45:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by 5-HT \* > \*\*Other than the misattributed quote(the hillary part), which december has acknowledged and apologized for, in what way did he lie in his OP? \*\* So, you believe him? Interesting. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/30 "2003-08-21T21:46:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by whatami \* > \*\*I agree with **DanielWithrow**. If this doesn’t count as trolling, I’m not sure what does. \*\* me too. I’d really appreciate an explanation from the administration how the actions of the OP in the GD thread do **not** constitute trolling. I’d also appreciate an explanation (if any) from **december’s** appologists if they would consider his actions in that thread “polite” and would continue to refer to him as being polite. I also, for the record, want a pony. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/31 "2003-08-21T21:49:18Z")
**december** is a deconstructionist. Take me now, Lord, I’ve seen it all. No wonder could ever again astound me, my sense of awe and astonishment forever cauterized. ---
**Author:** ![5-HT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/f19dbf/32.png) [@5-HT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5-HT)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/32 "2003-08-21T22:01:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Binarydrone \* > \*\*So, you believe him? Interesting. \*\* Believe him on which part? Do I believe the hillary part was an honest mistake before he got called on it? I don’t honestly know. I know he has issued a _mea culpa_ WRT it. Most of the responses here mostly sound like sour grapes from people whose knee’s jerked in the other thread. That’s what I object to. ---
**Author:** ![Grim\_Beaker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Grim\_Beaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grim_Beaker)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/33 "2003-08-21T22:16:33Z")
I had a post typed out, then deleted it. Bricker already said _exactly_ what I wanted to say. Good show. ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/34 "2003-08-21T22:26:52Z")
**december** , old adversary, you of all people are the last who should be whining about the corrosives effects of partisan politics. Of all the participants who regularly contribute here you are without a doubt the most annoyingly and hard headedly partisan. On top of that you lack the mother wit to pull it off. If you were an obvious fool, like for example that excretal occasional poster **Monty something-something** , it would be different. If you posts occasionally had an amusing turn of phrase of entertaining word play it would be different. It is pretty apparent that you have put a fair amount of thought into your partisan blather, and worse, that you believe it. You have taken a statement by President Clinton, maybe more than one statement by President Clinton, and a statement by his wife, the junior senator from New York, blended them and published them in a deliberately deceiving and deceptive form. It is not the first time you have done that. Remember your thread about anti-Semitism in the French schools? Now you have the mendacity to claim that you did it all as an object lesion and that you are being put upon. Disingenuous does not fairly describe your behavior. Dishonest, weaseling, fraudulent, underhanded and self-serving come close. It is the behavior I would expect of a crooked lawyer. It is worse than dishonest; it is French (to paraphrase Mark Twain). Some how my instinctive reaction to your stuff in often: Are you really that Goddamned ignorant or are you just pulling my chain? Now I know. The answer both parts of that question is Yes. It is pointless to try to justify yourself to me. I made up my mind about you a long time ago. Now your problem is justifying your self to the administrators. If you value your participation on these boards you really ought to devote a little more time to getting right with them. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/35 "2003-08-21T22:41:43Z")
Tell me again why **Collunsbury** got banned but **december** is still here? ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/36 "2003-08-21T23:02:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by december \* > \*\* My thread was a parallel to [Alan Sokal’s parody article published in the postmodern journal \*Social Text \*](http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/#papers). \*\* A question or three, **d** : Do you think that Sokal will ever publish in _Social Text_ again? Why or why not? And what, if any, parallels should be drawn by the administration of this website? **Full disclosure** : Whist the term “moderator” appears under my name as I make this post, it does so simply because the mechanics of changing it have not yet been taken care of. I am simply a member and post only as such. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2003, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/37 "2003-08-21T23:28:09Z")
Oh **Manny** , that’s why we love you. ---
**Author:** ![milroyj](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@milroyj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/milroyj)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/38 "2003-08-22T00:01:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DanielWithrow \* > \*\*The quote is equally untrue whoever said it. If Bush says it, we get an extra _frisson_ of disgust because we presume that he’s privy to the real story, that he gets unadulterated briefings from CIA and other intelligence bodies. When he says it, therefore, I presume he’s intentiaonally bullshitting. \*\* The 2nd paragraph of the OP was from Senator Clinton, who also has access to classified information as a Senator, and as one from the state that bore the brunt of the attack. Are you calling her a liar? If not, why not? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/39 "2003-08-22T00:12:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by manhattan \* > \*\*A question or three, **d** : Do you think that Sokal will ever publish in _Social Text_ again? Why or why not? And what, if any, parallels should be drawn by the administration of this website? \*\* Rightly or wrongly, I didn’t see my OP as taking advantage of the board administration. On further consideration, that may have been a wrong judgment on my part. I regret offending the administrators. **Leaper** , I provided a cite showing that the quotes came from Bill and Hillary Clinton. Some posters called President Bush a liar when they thought the quotes came from him. They now have an opportunity to call the Clintons liars for making these statements about Iraqi WMDs. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [August 22, 2003, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740/40 "2003-08-22T00:17:24Z")
Next question, then. Clearly, you intended to mislead the membership. The stated purpose of this message board is to eradicate ignorance. Do you think that the administration of this message board should accept as a member a person who intentionally and with bad intent spreads ignorance? How is the mission of the board furthured by intentional lies? **same disclosure** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-post-modern-posters-truth-depends-on-who-said-it/196740.md?page=3)