# For posterity **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 16, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867 "2016-12-16T16:41:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/41 "2016-12-17T20:30:05Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > That’s what I meant by “richly deserve it”. You should have said what you meant, then, rather than something completely different. In your view, what would be the strategic value of using nukes on ISIS? ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/42 "2016-12-17T20:35:41Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I don’t know if “scared shitless” would at all characterize my attitude, but it’s foreign policy that causes me the greatest concern in the Trump administration. I’ve been trying to be fair and just shutting up and waiting to see what happens, but my cautious optimism has degraded into cautious pessimism, given his cabinet picks so far. I really do want him to prove me wrong, but I’ll be happy if we return to this thread in two years and we haven’t experienced a serious international crisis due to Trump poking the bear (whether by tweet, phone call, impromptu speech, etc.) Except “the bear” (or the gorilla, or the freaking woolly mammoth) is the US. By far. Objectively. And other, lesser, animals may need a bit of poking sometimes. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/43 "2016-12-17T20:39:42Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Except “the bear” (or the gorilla, or the freaking woolly mammoth) is the US. By far. Objectively. And other, lesser, animals may need a bit of poking sometimes. Sometimes, yes. Let’s just come back in two years and hope it’s all worked out for the best. This (Trump fucking up the foreign stage) is one thing I hope I am totally wrong about. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/44 "2016-12-17T20:45:32Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Except “the bear” (or the gorilla, or the freaking woolly mammoth) is the US. By far. Objectively. And other, lesser, animals may need a bit of poking sometimes. donald loves the bear. He’s going to have the bears children. But there’s a whole noahs ark out there to worry about. The most frightening thing I see already, without fortune telling a few weeks or months down the road, is the end of truth in public life and discourse. It’s already happened and you can see it on CNN, Fox, the networks, comments sections, and here right now. [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/RZbLjRXARXo/hqdefault.jpg "James Brown - Funky President (People It's Bad) 1974") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZbLjRXARXo) ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/45 "2016-12-17T23:08:17Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > And, no, I’m not going to be more specific, since these threads are always about pointing and laughing at people who get things wrong. And that’s not remotely constructive or useful. In my opinion, it’s not constructive or useful to offer predictions that are false and seek to insulate yourself from consequences for doing so. You should be constantly asking yourself if your model of the universe produces valid predictions about the universe, and if it does not then you should be seeking to revise your model – to admit that your ideas that led to the incorrect predictions were flawed. It seems to me that you’d rather feel safe about the ability to predict outcomes by avoiding any future reminders if you were wrong. This approach, in my opinion, shields you from the process that should be in play refining and improving your views. I’m not scared shitless, but I do have several specific concerns about a Trump administration. For example, I predict that the EPA’s enforcement powers and role will be substantially weakened to the detriment of the health of the environment. I fear that Trump will deviate from his promises on judicial appointees and install right-wing activists instead of originalists or textualists. I am concerned that his inability to control his tweeting will lead to government-by-Twitter, with uncertainty and directional swings replacing more measured progress. If I am wrong, then I will accept being wrong, and welcome being called out on it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/46 "2016-12-17T23:21:07Z")
OK, let me connect the dots for folks here: Trump says to Mexico “Pay me to sabotage your economy, or I’ll do it to you for free”. Mexico, being led by people who are not insane, says “Hell no”. Trump gets all offended by this refusal, and attempts to apply pressure. What kind of pressure? Well, what kind of pressure has he said that he intends to use in foreign negotiations? He escalates to “Pay me to sabotage your economy, or I’ll nuke you”. Mexico again says “Hell no”. At this point, does he back down and admit that he’s lost? Has he ever done so before? Given what Trump himself has said about how he intends to do business, this is a plausible sequence of events. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/47 "2016-12-17T23:45:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, let me connect the dots for folks here: Trump says to Mexico “Pay me to sabotage your economy, or I’ll do it to you for free”. Mexico, being led by people who are not insane, says “Hell no”. Trump gets all offended by this refusal, and attempts to apply pressure. What kind of pressure? Well, what kind of pressure has he said that he intends to use in foreign negotiations? He escalates to “Pay me to sabotage your economy, or I’ll nuke you”. Mexico again says “Hell no”. At this point, does he back down and admit that he’s lost? Has he ever done so before? > > Given what Trump himself has said about how he intends to do business, this is a plausible sequence of events. Are you serious? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/48 "2016-12-17T23:47:38Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Are you serious? Yeah, Trump nuking Mexico is nowhere in my list of fears. That seems a bit … out there. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/49 "2016-12-18T00:03:12Z")
I don’t think I’m scared _shitless_. But I am scared, and I refuse to be apologetic about it. As someone who works in environmental regulation, it would be stupid for me not to think about the ramifications of the Trump administration on my livelihood. Everyone keeps talking about finding jobs for the unskilled salt-of-the-earth types, but no one cares about their neighborhood civil servant (unless they wear a blue uniform). Still, it’s not really my job that I’m worried about as much as my whole agency’s mission. I have coworkers who have their salaries paid out of federal grants. A lot of the good work that we do hinges on federal support. I’m also scared because I am not stupid enough to think we are immune to the same breakdowns of civilization that have occurred and are currently happening all around the world. Trump isn’t trying very hard to not look like a tyrant. And he has plenty of [violent, angry people](http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/16/politics/donald-trump-supporters-vicious-violent/index.html) that he can depend on to do his bidding for him. I work with these people. I live in their neighborhood. I don’t know what they see when they see me, but their rhetoric about minorities doesn’t make me feel warm and fuzzy inside. Trevor Noah has aptly pointed out the similarities between [African dictators and Trump](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FPrJxTvgdQ). I think it is pretty reasonable to be afraid of someone like Jacob Zuma or Robert Mugabe. Only a fool says “That can’t happen here.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/50 "2016-12-18T01:09:08Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yeah, Trump nuking Mexico is nowhere in my list of fears. That seems a bit … out there. You’re very diplomatic. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/51 "2016-12-18T01:15:44Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Appointing hundreds of lower-level federal judges, to fill the posts that the Senate refused to act on when Obama nominated people to fill the vacancies. > > Trump is going to influence the course of American jurisprudence for the next fifty years, and not for the better. The country is going to be harmed, and democracy itself will be undermined, via gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement laws, which Trump’s choice of judges will uphold as legal. Sure, the dems did their share of gerrymandering when they were in power, but nothing to the grotesque extent that the reps have done so, and this, more than anything, would be the major stepping stone to the (thankfully still very unlikely) event of one-party rule. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > - Denying the reality of Climate change, and pushing the world over the tipping point of no return. It’s just possible that we may have been able to ameliorate some of the worst problems to come if the US had taken a leadership role. Now we’re screwed. This point really gets at me considering all the inroads made over the last eight years, which _will_ completely unravel now, thanks to Zinke, Lucas and that toxic Pruitt dingleberry at the wheel. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > - By appointing known enemies/incompetents to be in charge of agencies, Trump will effectively destroy certain parts of government. I’m sure this is part of the plan, and is actually applauded by those who want to destroy government - both the “libertarian, every man for himself” types, as well as those who see the money that can be made. > > - In this vein, the worst scenario would be; 1. Moving Social Security to a privately run model, where corporations can “manage” accounts, and skim 2 - 3% per year off the top. Billions of people’s retirement dollars funnelled into private company hands. > > 1. Reduction or elimination of public schools. Private schools and corporations can skim the profits off of the education system’s tax dollars. Much money to be made for a few people in this area. > … > 2. Elimination of Obamacare with nothing to replace it except for “you can’t afford insurance, so tough shit, it’s all your fault for being poor or sick” (I ellipse’ied point #3 out of there because I addressed it earlier) To this list I’ll add the deep waters Planned Parenthood is treading with Pence, himself, being the main scumbag behind its possible demise. While this is more or less the predicted republican platform, I don’t see Trump deviating from any of these avenues, and so, as other posters have mentioned, I’m not so much scared shitless as I am particularly ‘cautiously pessimistic’ (thanks, **pulykamell**!) about the potential of his sociopathic unpredictability in social and foreign policy arenas. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/52 "2016-12-18T01:27:01Z")
Nope, not scared shitless. A Reagan or Bush or Cruz would scare me shitless, but not the Drumf. He’s not a hardcore Republican and I don’t think he’s going to carry out their agenda. He’s also not going to “destroy Washington” which is going to disappoint of lot of conservative whack jobs who I think really do want some sort of revolution where they fantasize about becoming libertarian kings 'cause they gots more guns. I won’t be surprised if we see an uptick in gun milita type terrorism when they finally realize Drumf used them like a tampon, and jobs didn’t come back and the economy is worse and unemployment goes up. He did run as Republican though, and I expect a war. Conservatives love a good war. Keeps 'em quiet. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/53 "2016-12-20T01:20:13Z")
I used to be not worried, but I have some worries over the future of my health care, among other things. I learned a long time ago when people say they are conservative, they aren’t really interested in conserving things… I am glad there is hope that I will be transferred to Canada. I didn’t wanna go at first, but now with things as they are, its looking a hell of a lot more promising. I get to find out in March, right when this shit show starts to ratchet up. If I get to move across the border, then it’s “yall’s problem” as we used to say back home. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/54 "2016-12-20T02:14:37Z")
Well…Canada needs to brace itself for a lot more acid rain, from U.S. smokestacks. There are some things you can’t run away from. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/55 "2016-12-20T03:44:36Z")
The whole premise of this OP is a little confused from my point of view. It sort of reminds me of the line from the Billy Joel song, “You told me not to drive…but I made it home alive…” I mean, does the fact that you drive drunk but manage to make it home without killing or maiming yourself or anyone else (which, let’s face it, is much more likely to be how it turns out for any particular occurrence of this) somehow demonstrate that drinking and driving is not something to be worried about? I will freely admit that my most extreme worries as to what could happen probably won’t come to pass. However, I hardly find that reassuring. After all, if I play Russian roulette then there’s a 5 out of 6 chance that my most extreme worries won’t come to pass either. If we had elected a competent leader, or at least one who had a smaller gap between his actual competence and his self-perceived competence, a leader who had some impulse control, a leader who demonstrated an ability to see the complexities of the real world, a leader who did not have authoritarian tendencies and the habit of scapegoating others, then we would be a lot less likely to have some sort of disaster befall us. And, even if those extreme worries don’t come to pass, it is becoming clearer and clearer with each Trump appointment that the best case scenario is still pretty damn shitty: Government policy being set by a bunch of ideologues who are going to ignore science, data, and facts and are going to try to undermine the central mission of the various agencies that they are in charge of. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/56 "2016-12-20T04:09:25Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Nope, not scared shitless. A Reagan or Bush or Cruz would scare me shitless, but not the Drumf. He’s not a hardcore Republican and I don’t think he’s going to carry out their agenda. He’s also not going to “destroy Washington” which is going to disappoint of lot of conservative whack jobs who I think really do want some sort of revolution where they fantasize about becoming libertarian kings 'cause they gots more guns. I won’t be surprised if we see an uptick in gun milita type terrorism when they finally realize Drumf used them like a tampon, and jobs didn’t come back and the economy is worse and unemployment goes up. > > He did run as Republican though, and I expect a war. Conservatives love a good war. Keeps 'em quiet. I agree Trump isn’t going to be pushing a conservative agenda. But he’s not going to stop conservatives either. You’ll see Pence and the Republicans in Congress enacting the conservative agenda while Trump basks in public attention and creates international incidents. ---
**Author:** ![Translucent\_Daydream](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/translucent_daydream/32/16170_2.png) [@Translucent\_Daydream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Translucent_Daydream)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/57 "2016-12-20T05:37:21Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > Well…Canada needs to brace itself for a lot more acid rain, from U.S. smokestacks. > > There are some things you can’t run away from. Very very true. ---
**Author:** ![Emily\_Litella](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emily_litella/32/3370_2.png) [@Emily\_Litella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emily_Litella)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/58 "2016-12-26T04:40:04Z")
I’m afraid that Trump will seriously weaken the EPA and that will start some environmental problems that will snowball into an environmental disaster, and that will disrupt the food chain to the point that there will be mass starvation. I’m thinking along the lines of dead honey bees. I’m thinking about climate change affecting crops and food sources. [https://www.epa.gov/climate-impacts/climate-impacts-agriculture-and-food-supply](https://www.epa.gov/climate-impacts/climate-impacts-agriculture-and-food-supply) This started happening before Trump, but at least with the Paris agreeement we were making an attempt to fix things. Now Trump wants to go backwards. I don’t think this disaster will happen in the next four years, but for posterity I think scientists will look back and say that Trumps’ administration was where everything started going south. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/59 "2016-12-26T05:27:29Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > See, that’s pretty mild. Is that enough to “scare you shitless”? A worse EPA is not “pretty mild.” Who stops the factories in my hometown from poisoning the groundwater,\* again, \*with Trump and the GOP in power? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2016, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867/60 "2016-12-26T06:07:22Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Nope, not scared shitless. A Reagan or Bush or Cruz would scare me shitless, but not the Drumf. **He’s not a hardcore Republican and I don’t think he’s going to carry out their agenda.** He’s also not going to “destroy Washington” which is going to disappoint of lot of conservative whack jobs who I think really do want some sort of revolution where they fantasize about becoming libertarian kings 'cause they gots more guns. I won’t be surprised if we see an uptick in gun milita type terrorism when they finally realize Drumf used them like a tampon, and jobs didn’t come back and the economy is worse and unemployment goes up. > > He did run as Republican though, and I expect a war. Conservatives love a good war. Keeps 'em quiet. (emphasis mine.) The thing is, he’s _ **already** _ setting up to carry out their agenda in a very big way, for whatever self-serving reasons he may have. Namely the appointments to Cabinet and major agencies that have already been discussed. Every single one of which is a Republican extremist’s wet dream, spectacularly unsuited to the job and, in the case of agencies the Republicans hate like the EPA and Education, the appointees are without exception incompetent ideologues fervently opposed to the very purpose of the agency they’re supposed to oversee. And the likely theory as to why he’s doing this is that throwing some big bones to the Republican-dominated Congress will get them off his back on conflict-of-interest matters and allow Trump and his family to enrich themselves with all the power of the presidency, as indeed they have already started doing with utter shamelessness. As an added bonus, he’s started a nuclear arms race with Russia and poisoned US relations with the UN before even being sworn in. Somebody please explain to me how any of this is going to end well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-posterity/774867.md?page=4)