# For Sam Stone: What about Canadian politics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 7, 2004, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746 "2004-08-07T06:47:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Feztickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5a626/32.png) [@Feztickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feztickle)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/41 "2004-08-09T16:13:53Z")
Also, I can’t search because I’m not a paying member. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/42 "2004-08-09T16:40:50Z")
I have no problem with him, but **Lib** , as we call him, has cheesed some people off good. Some of it, even he’ll admit, is his own fault; some of it is because he’s rather dogged in argument and some people take it personally. These threads should give you some idea: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=265487&highlight=libertarian](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=265487&highlight=libertarian) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=256466&highlight=libertarian](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=256466&highlight=libertarian) I would recommend a name change for everyone’s sake. ---
**Author:** ![Feztickle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b5a626/32.png) [@Feztickle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feztickle)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/43 "2004-08-09T17:01:59Z")
Thanks for the links… your advice is worth pondering, but I think I’ll keep the name for now. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2004, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/44 "2004-08-09T21:05:43Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > That’s an interesting theory but I’m not sure I entirely buy it. While it’s true the Rae cabinet had no experienced ministers, it’s also true the Peterson cabinet had no experienced ministers (the Liberals hadn’t won an election in Ontario in forty years) and the Harris government had no experienced ministers (it was a totally different cast of characters in 1995 than the last Big Blue Machine team.) But neither government was nearly as inept. > > Still, perhaps Rae simply did a terrible job of choosing his cabinet, as opposed to there being an ideological problem. It is worthwhile to note that **many of the things the Harris government did were originally NDP ideas,** including the educational reforms, that were simply picked up in process and carried through implementation by the Tories. > > Also a factor to consider is that a socialist government might have a very different effect at the federal level than at the provincial level. An NDP government in Ottawa might scrap free trade, which could be a Godawful disaster. An NDP government in Toronto or Regina has a completely different set of responsibilities. Well, I would bow to your judgment of the reasons for Rae’s screwups. Yet another potential factor in the mix would be how Rae’s cabinet interacted with the existing bureaucracy, but I have no idea what issues there might have been there. I agree that a federal NDP govt scrapping NAFTA would be a disaster, and I realize they have some protectionism in their platform. And you’re right - the primary provincial responsibilities of health care and education compliment the (imho) strong points of NDP philosophy, where federal responsibilities such as foreign trade, defense, etc, do not. Still, there’s a good deal of overlapping responsibility in many areas where a strong NDP voice at the federal level is not anything I’d view as a bad thing. But really, I mostly just wanted to counter the “The NDP ruin every province they govern, and it’s because they’re social democrats” meme that seemed to be going down. Anyone who can look at the record of the Romanow government and think that it was a disaster, given the circumstances, has got an…ummm…interesting outlook on politics. I think Romanow’s fiscal accomplishments are far more noteworthy than Klein’s, given what he had to work with. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/45 "2004-08-11T22:38:26Z")
Hey, where are you, **Sam?** Did you lose interest? ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/46 "2023-06-02T19:21:16Z")
Resurrecting this thread (for old times sake) to see if people have changed much over the decades. But mainly since I wanted to post this excellent Coyne column. But it doesn’t matter. Trudeau has one this round and lost the war. The handwringing won’t matter, but democracy is weakened. > **[Opinion: If Parliament has no confidence in Johnston, how long can it have...](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-if-parliament-has-no-confidence-in-johnston-how-long-can-it-have/)** > > The foreign interference story has just begun to be told. Far from resolving all doubts, the Johnston report only succeeded in raising new ones ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2023, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/47 "2023-06-02T23:14:59Z")
It’s actually kind of scary how relevant many of the descriptors are. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2023, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/48 "2023-06-03T00:50:55Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > I know exactly why that is, Mr. rolleyes. It’s because the Reform party was originally a regional western party heavily represented by conservative agrarian types. The new party is bigger and is pulling in a more cosmopolitan bunch, but the old Reformers are still there. This will correct itself over time. I wasn’t involved in this thread the first time around. What do you think of your prediction now, @Sam_Stone? It appears to me as if the Reformers won the war. I expect Erin O’Toole would agree with me too. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2023, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/49 "2023-06-03T02:14:43Z")
> [@FinsToTheLeft](#): > > What do you think of your prediction now, @Sam_Stone? It appears to me as if the Reformers won the war. I expect Erin O’Toole would agree with me too. I think the entire political situation changed after Covid. The alliances have shifted all around. I’m not sure what you are asking though - do you mean the old western Reform party eventually won? Or ‘reformers’ won, meaning more progressive PCs? The issues that are energizing conservatives today are very different than they were just a handful of years ago. The world changes. I will pointbout though that after Harper the Conservatives picked Sheer, and then O’Toole. Neither of which were from the ‘reform’ wing. Covid and Trudeau’s response and other policies and scandals have re-radicalized the right. ---
**Author:** ![TheTooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/919ad9/32.png) [@TheTooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheTooth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2023, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/50 "2023-06-18T04:41:11Z")
Which is somewhat strange considering the burden of having to wear a mask and such was put upon them by provincial governments. Well, no fear of that now here in scenic Alberta! Yay us, I guess. The separatists and accelerationists have found a pool of discontented, wrongheaded citizens to convert and a populist figurehead who’s either dishonest or stupid enough to cater to them for the sake of her own power. I’m still flabbergasted that there are thousands of people in this province who look at what the right has wrought in the US and thought “I want me some of that.” Kenney was right; the lunatics are running this asylum now. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2023, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/51 "2023-06-18T23:55:02Z")
> [@TheTooth](#): > > Which is somewhat strange considering the burden of having to wear a mask and such was put upon them by provincial governments. Well, no fear of that now here in scenic Alberta! Yay us, I guess. But the fuse that started the whole trucker mess, for instance, was a federal policy, as were existing border restrictions, as were restrictions related to airlines, so on and so forth. Someone who didn’t like masks or vaccine rules or whatever had plenty to blame both levels of government for if they chose to. The fun of living in a federation is you have twice the people to be mad at. ---
**Author:** ![TheTooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/919ad9/32.png) [@TheTooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheTooth)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/52 "2023-06-19T06:29:18Z")
They’re a bunch of separatists for whom living in a federation is apparently no fun at all. And they have no one to blame for their foolishness and lack of testicular fortitude but themselves. Possibly their parents goofed as well. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/53 "2023-06-19T19:00:17Z")
In other Canadian politics, Justin Trudeau, Bill Morneau and several others are under criminal investigation for obstruction of justice in the SNC-Lavalin affair: > **[RCMP reportedly investigating Liberals' SNC-Lavalin affair over obstruction...](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/snc-lavalin-obstruction-of-justice)** > > Nearly four years ago Trudeau broke federal ethics laws by pressuring a former justice minister to intervene in the prosecution of a Montreal-based engineering firm. This should have happened four years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Palooka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/palooka/32/2902_2.png) [@Palooka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palooka)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/54 "2023-06-19T22:44:40Z")
RCMP denies it though: [https://twitter.com/rcmpgrcpolice/status/1670914619211239426](https://twitter.com/rcmpgrcpolice/status/1670914619211239426) ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2023, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/55 "2023-06-19T23:52:21Z")
The headline has been changed significantly from the earlier version. > **[RCMP denies reported investigation of Liberals' SNC-Lavalin affair over...](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/snc-lavalin-obstruction-of-justice)** > > Nearly four years ago Trudeau broke federal ethics laws by pressuring a former justice minister to intervene in the prosecution of a Montreal-based engineering firm. Quick, get me my fainting crunch. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/56 "2023-06-20T00:17:27Z")
Here’# the letter the RCMP sent to Democracy Watch: > **[RCMPRespLettATIARequestMay252023.pdf](https://democracywatch.ca/wp-content/uploads/RCMPRespLettATIARequestMay252023.pdf)** > > 6.66 MB Relevant paragraph: > [@](#): > > A review of the records revealed that this matter is currently under investigation. The records are subiect to an exemption pursuant to subparagraph 16(1)(a)(i) of the Act, a description of which can be found at: [http://laws-lois.justice.ac.ca/ena/acts/A-1](http://laws-lois.justice.ac.ca/ena/acts/A-1). Please note we have exercised our discretion and released some material to you. Once the investigation and any related court proceedings are concluded, you may re-submit your request. If there isn’t an investigation going on, they lied to DW to keep from releasing documents requested under the Access To Information Act ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/57 "2023-06-20T02:45:00Z")
If this is or isn’t a thing, nothing will come of it in either case. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/58 "2023-06-20T04:18:46Z")
Yeah, I tend to agree. ---
**Author:** ![FinsToTheLeft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finstotheleft/32/2930_2.png) [@FinsToTheLeft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinsToTheLeft)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/59 "2023-06-20T14:57:18Z")
How is this for an assessment of Trudeau’s performance by noted radical left muckraker Brian Mulroney? > **[Justin Trudeau will be remembered for his ‘leadership’ — not ‘the trash and...](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2023/06/19/justin-trudeau-will-be-remembered-for-his-leadership-not-the-trash-and-the-rumours-brian-mulroney-says.html)** > > The two politicians met onstage in Antigonish at the opening of an Atlantic economic forum Monday night. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2023, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746/60 "2023-06-21T13:19:43Z")
Who could possibly be more trustworthy than Brian Mulroney? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sam-stone-what-about-canadian-politics/258746.md?page=4)