# For Sanders fans who plan on sitting out if Bernie is not nominated **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 18, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466 "2016-02-18T18:04:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/181 "2016-02-23T20:11:30Z")
One of President Obama’s first executive orders in 2009 was to close GITMO. But he has to go to congress for the funds. They have blocked him ever since. he tried again in 2011, and he tried again today Only 6 Democrats stood with him. But as per usual the majority of Congress was against him. 90-6. Voting w/ Obama to close Gitmo: Durbin-IL, Harkin-IA, Leahy-VT, Levin-MI, Reed-RI, Whitehouse-RI Bernie has not been one of those senators. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/182 "2016-02-23T20:22:27Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > Well maybe to you 1988 is a lifetime ago but I had been voting in elections for over a decade by then. McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, before McGovern Adlai Stevenson 2x against Dwight. Gore didn’t lose for being too conservative, and he probably didn’t lose because of Nader voters. He lost because people in Florida got confused by the ballot that was designed either to intentionally hurt Gore or was designed by imbeciles, and made it easy to accidentally vote for Buchanan when you wanted to vote for Gore. > > It’s easy to go after the Nader supporters if you were pro-Gore, but it’s real obvious from how Buchanan got better results in liberal counties in Florida than make any rational sense, that a lot of Gore voters were simply confused. So in terms of influencing voters, I think Gore actually won in 2000–he won the popular vote and I firmly believe more Floridians woke up that morning intending to vote for Gore than for Bush. I think some of them messed up. FWIW I still think it was right for Bush to win the presidency, our elections have to put the man who won the votes into office, and I think more people _actually_ voted for Bush, even if only because some Gore voters accidentally voted for Buchanan. I agree 90% with this analysis, except that I voted for Nader :). I lived in NC, which had 0% chance of going for Gore, so I figured voting my conscience was completely acceptable. (In closer local races, I voted more pragmatically.) Gore didn’t lose for any one reason; there were a lot of problems with his campaign, including terrible luck with ballot-design. But one of the problems was his failure to vitalize progressive voters, to the extent that a lot of folks saw insufficient difference between him and Bush on issues near and dear to them. His loss, I believe, made Obama’s win possible, as people saw progressives as a demographic worth courting. BTW, and I ask this respectfully, could you drop terms like “Berniebots”? They add nothing to the conversation. As for the thread, here’s what I encourage Sanders supporters to do: 1. Ask yourself whether your politics are close enough to Clinton’s that you’d feel comfortable voting for her. If so, done! 2. If you’re not comfortable voting for her, ask yourself whether you’d actively prefer the Republican candidate to her as our next president. If so, done (you freak)! 3. If you wouldn’t actually prefer the Republican candidate, VISIT [FIVETHIRTYEIGHT.COM](http://FIVETHIRTYEIGHT.COM) THE NIGHT BEFORE THE ELECTION. Is your state in the 95%+ range to go for one candidate or the other? If so, vote your conscience and done! On the off chance that your state goes in the surprising direction, it’s going to be a landslide for one candidate or another across the country, and your vote still wouldn’t have mattered that much. 4. Finally, if your state is a toss-up, especially with the winner having a less than 60% chance of victory, **vote like a goddamned pragmatist**. If you need to, trade your vote with someone in a solid state: get your Clinton-supporting buddy in New York or California or Mississippi to vote for Sanders, and in exchange you vote for Clinton. But be a motherfucking pragmatist about it. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/183 "2016-02-23T20:26:53Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > 1. Finally, if your state is a toss-up, especially with the winner having a less than 60% chance of victory, **vote like a goddamned pragmatist**. If you need to, trade your vote with someone in a solid state: get your Clinton-supporting buddy in New York or California or Mississippi to vote for Sanders, and in exchange you vote for Clinton. But be a motherfucking pragmatist about it. I’m confused by this advice for the general election. Are you expecting some to write in Sanders? ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/184 "2016-02-23T20:36:04Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I agree 90% with this analysis, except that I voted for Nader :). I lived in NC, which had 0% chance of going for Gore, so I figured voting my conscience was completely acceptable. (In closer local races, I voted more pragmatically.) > > Gore didn’t lose for any one reason; there were a lot of problems with his campaign, including terrible luck with ballot-design. But one of the problems was his failure to vitalize progressive voters, to the extent that a lot of folks saw insufficient difference between him and Bush on issues near and dear to them. His loss, I believe, made Obama’s win possible, as people saw progressives as a demographic worth courting. > > BTW, and I ask this respectfully, could you drop terms like “Berniebots”? They add nothing to the conversation. > > As for the thread, here’s what I encourage Sanders supporters to do: > > 1. Ask yourself whether your politics are close enough to Clinton’s that you’d feel comfortable voting for her. If so, done! > > 2. If you’re not comfortable voting for her, ask yourself whether you’d actively prefer the Republican candidate to her as our next president. If so, done (you freak)! > > 3. If you wouldn’t actually prefer the Republican candidate, VISIT [FIVETHIRTYEIGHT.COM](http://FIVETHIRTYEIGHT.COM) THE NIGHT BEFORE THE ELECTION. Is your state in the 95%+ range to go for one candidate or the other? If so, vote your conscience and done! On the off chance that your state goes in the surprising direction, it’s going to be a landslide for one candidate or another across the country, and your vote still wouldn’t have mattered that much. > > 4. Finally, if your state is a toss-up, especially with the winner having a less than 60% chance of victory, **vote like a goddamned pragmatist**. If you need to, trade your vote with someone in a solid state: get your Clinton-supporting buddy in New York or California or Mississippi to vote for Sanders, and in exchange you vote for Clinton. But be a motherfucking pragmatist about it. I prefer using the term Bernie Babies over Bernie Bots. Hardcore Bernie or Bust people act like spoiled toddlers. Writing in Bernie Sanders during the general election would be pointless. He’s not a 3rd party candidate like Nader was. In November, the most petulant Bernie Babies will either sit at home in mommy’s basement, pouting and doing hits off the bong or else they will throw their vote away on a joke candidate like Jill Stein. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/185 "2016-02-23T20:41:34Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I’m confused by this advice for the general election. Are you expecting some to write in Sanders? :smack: Brain fart. I began the post thinking about people who said they’d vote for Jill Stein or some such, but by the time I reached that sentence I forgot what I meant. In that sentence, sub in “candidate of your choice” for “Sanders.” > [@dalej42](#): > > I prefer using the term Bernie Babies over Bernie Bots. Hardcore Bernie or Bust people act like spoiled toddlers. Dale, I made the request to Martin, because his otherwise thoughtful posts full of interesting analysis are IMO marred by his unnecessary namecalling. I’m not sure your posts are in the same situation. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/186 "2016-02-23T21:13:51Z")
**foolsguinea** , I think you are getting a bit carried away. I feel I’ve established that I’m not an HRC fan – I think she’s one more Establishment hack politician – but I don’t see how she’s so dramatically worse than any of the others. Sure, she might turn out to be Nixon, but so could anyone else (what was **Slacker** saying about having backed Edwards as the\* safe\* choice?). I don’t see any reason to think she would be worse than her husband, who I wasn’t a huge fan of but who looks like Thomas Jefferson compared to the stooges who preceded and succeeded him. And compared to anyone the Republicans are going to nominate, Hillary looks like an amalgam of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Moses. Just lie back, close your eyes and think of the Supreme Court, then start preparing for those 2018 Congressional races. That’s if you live in a swing state, of course. If not, feel free to join me on the Jill Stein bandwagon. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/187 "2016-02-23T21:28:22Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > And compared to anyone the Republicans are going to nominate, Hillary looks like an amalgam of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Moses. A slaveowner, a guy who suspended the constitution, and a dude who conspired to murder his enemy’s children? Harsh! ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/188 "2016-02-23T21:31:47Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > A slaveowner, a guy who suspended the constitution, and a dude who conspired to murder his enemy’s children? Harsh! She’ll do all that before February, 2017! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/189 "2016-02-23T21:37:24Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > She’ll do all that before February, 2017! I guarandamntee you the RNC has this ad ready to roll. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/190 "2016-02-23T21:42:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I guarandamntee you the RNC has this ad ready to roll. If she’s running against Cruz, even the RNC will include tiny print that says “But she’s still better than Cruz.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/191 "2016-02-23T22:20:17Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > …Finally, if your state is a toss-up, especially with the winner having a less than 60% chance of victory, **vote like a goddamned pragmatist**. If you need to, trade your vote with someone in a solid state: get your Clinton-supporting buddy in New York or California or Mississippi to vote for Sanders, and in exchange you vote for Clinton. But be a motherfucking pragmatist about it. I would add only this: “and think about the Supreme Court. Think long and think hard.” ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/192 "2016-02-23T22:25:54Z")
> [@Peremensoe](#): > > Nevertheless, as I think you know perfectly well, virtually everyone would call what is going on now, and what happened in early 2008 before the conventions, “campaigns for the Presidency,” an elected office. Clinton, her staff and website, describe her right now as a “candidate for President,” without needing to parse the distinction from a candidate for the Democratic Party nomination for President. It’s hand-waving to ignore the fact that HRC was narrowly beaten in a high-stakes national contest by none other than Barack Obama. Bernie’s blistering winning streak was in his own home state, in a small electorate, running as the incumbent half the time if I’m not mistaken. The graduation speech is never delivered by the valedictorian of summer school. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/193 "2016-02-23T22:57:22Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I always tell myself that if my ethical conclusion somehow lines up perfectly with the most satisfying thing to do anyway, I should be suspicious. In this case, I encourage you to be suspicious of your own reasoning. Do you think picking the “weaker” candidate is satisfying? Do you think giving up on the Democrats and letting Donald Trump win is satisfying? The Clintons appear to me to be guilty of high crimes. I cannot vote for Hillary Clinton on principle, even if I more generally agreed with her. To do so is to sin in the same way as the Republicans who voted to re-elect Dubya. I have left one party over high crimes; I can leave another. Or I can be a populist Democrat who doesn’t vote for Bourbon Democrats, like it was a century ago. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/194 "2016-02-23T23:04:25Z")
What high crime again? And have you forwarded this information on to the Justice Department? If you have actual probable cause that either Clinton has committed a crime I implore you to share it. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/195 "2016-02-23T23:06:00Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > The green/Nader voters would simply waste your time and their rigid ideological purity would always find some reason they couldn’t vote Kerry. Perhaps John Kerry didn’t wash his hands after using the bathroom when he was 5 years old. > > Bernie supporters will fall into either the Dated Dean/Married Kerry camp or else they’ll stay home or vote 3rd party. I suspect many of the latter would call Bernie a sell out if he did get the nomination. Just like how the hipsters immediately dislike an indy band that suddenly has a hit. OK, sure. I voted for Kerry in 2004 because Bush was a criminal. How does that translate to voting for someone who sold the services of State to profit her husband’s corporate entity? She made the Foundation a pimp and Foggy Bottom its whore, and all for oil money from Norway, UAE, and Algeria.\* I can’t trust her,\* and you can’t make me vote for her. That’s not ideology. That’s ethical principle. Ideologically, I think someone like HRC would be a tolerable President. _I don’t trust her ethics._ ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/196 "2016-02-23T23:20:26Z")
> [@dalej42](#): > > The views expressed by hardcore Bernie or bust supporters are exactly why the Democratic Party should and will ignore them. I get what you’re saying. Look, the “hard core” of Greens and Liberty Union diehards to whom even Bernie is just another corporate sellout, they’re already not voting for the Democrats. But you don’t want to lose anybody else to them, or to the non-voting protest counterculture. > [@](#): > > Reminds me of when I called and canvassed for Kerry in 2004 in Ohio. We had a rating system to gauge the likelihood of the person voting for Kerry. Green/Naderite people were assigned the lowest likelihood, the same rating as hardcore Bush voters. A state Kerry either lost by a sliver, or won by a sliver and then lost to election fraud; analyses vary. I’m not saying your directives were wrong. The hard core are kooky. But apparently you need the whole coalition to win; something Democrats started to figure out in 2006. If Dean or Kerry had had a plan to avert war with Iran, and to clean up Bush’s crimes, I think they’d have been viable in the general. Kerry didn’t play to the anti-war crowd enough to mobilize the squishier anti-war voters, and he didn’t run on his own experience as a veteran who’d criticized the Pentagon. If he was running to the right, it didn’t work: he let the Swift Boat guys define his experience, he didn’t make enough inroads among the good ol’ boys, and he was never going to win over the jingoists. I guess he chose wrong. Hillary would mobilize Second Wave feminists, but leave youth and anti-war voters on the table. If she wins on that, it’s great for her career and her ego, and a lesser evil to the leftish. But playing mainly to older, elite voters may be bad for the party over time. Oh, and I listen to Sia, and I voted for Kerry & Obama. I’m not that much a hipster stereotype. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2016, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/197 "2016-02-23T23:51:12Z")
Maybe I haven’t been clear. There are feminist arguments to put Hillary in the Oval Office that are worth considering. There are some pragmatic reasons to put her on the ballot for this office, this term. Now, long term, the Democrats are dead without the Bernie base. That is also true. I would like to be able to call for all Democrats to work together, whoever is the nominee. Strategically, and as a partisan, that seems sound to me. But I have lately become convinced that if/when we get a clearer picture of Clinton Foundation finances, Hillary is likely to become unacceptable to me, and to others. Not so much over policy, but over ethics and judgment. So here I am, saying, “Oops, I can’t vote for her after all.” So much for party unity. ☹ So I have fallen back on trying to hold the party hostage, which I was previously flirting with using more as a bluff. I try to console myself that Trump at least seems to almost agree with me on socialized medicine, and he still might win. But I’m a conservationist, and Trump is terrible. I’m sorry, guys, this is not how I wanted this campaign to go. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2016, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/198 "2016-02-24T00:01:04Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > To me the problem is if Bernie is as his supporters say–a genuine idealist, I don’t want him as President. The idea of an uncompromising person in the White House is a bad one. The pro-Sanders people are borderline akin to the Tea Party Republicans who have destroyed my party–by making it so that if you compromise with the opposition you’re likely to be primaried out of office, this has literally ruined not just my party but Congress itself. > > If Bernie is as he says–I’d hate him in the Oval Office, a guy who at least tries to compromise (although he’s often lacked a dance partner) like Obama is 1000x better than an idealogue who doesn’t. > > If he **does** compromise–and he’s apparently done that, for example by being pro-gun in Vermont and now he’s tried to step back away from that, and for some of his votes on nonsense amendments that have to be seen as anti-immigrant (like the one prohibiting the government from “tipping off” the Mexican government about Minutemen activity, like I said, a nonsense vote but one he participated in), to his linking immigration to lower wages (a position he is not repeating now because it doesn’t play with Latinos) then explain to me how he isn’t just a politician? Note, **I** don’t see a problem with politicians who compromise, that’s the Berniebots. It’s not either-or. You’re not just excluding the middle here, you’re excluding the whole vast continuum between the poles of pure idealism and absolute cynicism. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2016, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/199 "2016-02-24T00:02:03Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > I do not find your spin on this compelling. Sanders has won, and lost, in one of the deepest of deep blue states. Clinton has won in a deep blue state and, if we are counting primaries, has won and lost in a variety of colors of states. > > None of this adds up, for me, with some sort of “Clinton can’t win. Sanders can!” arithmetic. > > And, as I am reminded by other posts, none of this touches on the point of the thread, which is that if Sanders is not nominated you no longer have the option to vote for him and his electability is no longer of interest. Then it comes down to voting for Clinton, voting for someone else, or not voting. Whether Clinton has lost a primary in the past should have, I would hope, very little bearing on how one should vote if she is the nominee. Vermont is deep blue NOW, it wasn’t when Sanders started his career. Before Bernie, Vermont had elected exactly two non-GOP Congressmen since 1856. It had a GOP Senator as recently as 2002. Obviously either candidate could win or lose in the general election. But as one of the arguments made by Clinton supporters is that she is markedly more electable, it seems important to me to point out that it ain’t necessarily so. I am deeply ashamed for my part in contributing to the first thread in the history of the SDMB to have wandered off topic by the fourth page, and will address the OP directly soon, if I have time. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 24, 2016, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/200 "2016-02-24T00:12:12Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > But I have lately become convinced that if/when we get a clearer picture of Clinton Foundation finances, Hillary is likely to become unacceptable to me, and to others. Not so much over policy, but over ethics and judgment. You’ve become convinced of the nature of some facts that you acknowledge you don’t even have? Typical Fox/Berniebot character insinuation stuff there. > [@](#): > > I’m sorry, guys, this is not how I wanted this campaign to go. It isn’t. Your version is in your own imagination. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466.md?page=11)