# For Sanders fans who plan on sitting out if Bernie is not nominated **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 18, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466 "2016-02-18T18:04:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/261 "2016-02-25T06:59:25Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > Gee, I wonder what Bernie could possibly have been doing today that he considered more important than being in Washington to cast that all-important seventh vote? Oh, yeah, RUNNING FOR PRESIDENT! > > Do YOU think that the “points” you’re raising are actually legitimate, or are you just hoping that someone else might be stupid enough to? Reading. It actually helps to understand why I support Hillary. If you read, that first vote was in 2009, just after Obama came to power. Bernie did not vote with him to close Gitmo. Only 6 had the balls to stand with Obama. The rest were worried they’d look like weaklings. Hillary was Sec of State so her views were the President’s views. Bernie somehow glossed over that when he said Hillary didn’t share the same thoughts about closing it down. In point of fact she and Diane Fienstein co-sponsored a bill to send detainees away from Gitmo and off of American soil as early as 2007. Your tone is not helpful to the discourse. I invite you to review the vote of 2009 for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/262 "2016-02-25T07:04:40Z")
So what if, when he doesn’t get the nomination, Bernie actually said point blank to his supporters to work and vote for Hillary, saying something like, “My vision of America’s future may not be Secretary Clinton’s, but there is a much better chance something like it will come to pass under her administration than that of Donald Trumps, and I will join with her to make that vision a reality”. What percentage of his hardcore, enthusiastic supporters would be swayed by that? I have to think that it’s a significant number, but how significant, in volume and effect, I can’t say. ---
**Author:** ![Einstein\_was\_a\_Hippie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e99b99/32.png) [@Einstein\_was\_a\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Einstein_was_a_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/263 "2016-02-25T07:12:57Z")
> [@BigAppleBucky](#): > > I suggest taking an on-line preference poll. You might be surprised at how close Hillary and Bernie are. Here are a couple, I’m sure there are more of them out there. > > When taking them be sure to note how important each issue is to you. The first poll has extra questions to get more detail from you. I did those as well. > > [On this one](http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/06/05/this-quiz-tells-you-which-presidential-candidate-best-matches-your-thinking/), I scored Sanders 97%, Jill Stein (Green party) 94%, Clinton 90% and O’Malley 88%. The highest Republican was Kasich at 43%. (I don’t recall exact numbers, but Cruz and Trump were at the bottom.) > > [In this one,](http://www.selectsmart.com/president/) Sanders 93%, Clinton 88% and Cruz 0%. > > Those results occurred a couple of months ago and I didn’t note the entire set. > > I strongly advise doing this for strong Sanders supporters who are doubtful about Clinton. (And I suppose for Republicans contemplating sitting out if their guy isn’t nominated.) > > It concerns me that Bernie fans, by sitting on their hands, might very well throw the election to a very bad choice - any Republican. In the year 2000 I posit there were at least 500 Floridian Nader voters who wish they’d picked Gore. People who don’t vote should shut their mouths regarding politics. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/264 "2016-02-25T07:14:00Z")
I don’t know about some, but I have held my nose and voted in some elections, just because the alternative is so much worse. I can’t think of a better reason to not let a xenophobic racist in the White House. I can’t imagine, or maybe I can imagine what type of individual he would nominate to the Supreme Court. Someone to the right of Scalia on progressive thought for sure, since progressive values don’t put change in Trump’s pockets. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/265 "2016-02-25T07:52:34Z")
I think that last claim is getting into what could be reasonably called hyperbolic scaremongering. I really don’t think Trump would put someone more right wing than Scalia on the court. But he’d definitely put someone more right wing than Hillary would, and that’s bad enough and reason enough to vote for her. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/266 "2016-02-25T13:28:43Z")
> [@Stealth\_Potato](#): > > As a liberal, I’d hope so, but I wouldn’t call it a sure thing. I almost feel as if the Democratic party is seeing a split between its liberal constituents and its conservative ones (who really want to be Republicans but don’t have any sane options in the GOP). In effect, this is already a three-party race: Democrat (Sanders), Republican (Clinton), and Batshit Insane (whoever the GOP picks). > > That said, I will be voting for Sanders in the general election, even if I have to write his name in. And before anyone accuses me of being moony-eyed millennial idealist living in my parents’ basement dreaming of a socialist paradise between bong hits: I am an engineer in my 30s who voted for Kerry back in '04 and for Obama both times. I already pay more in federal taxes than the median family income, and I’m well aware a Sanders presidency means my taxes will probably go up, even if he doesn’t accomplish all his aims. I’m well aware that he probably won’t accomplish everything he wants to. I have, however, hit a critical point of frustration with the two-party system. I’m galled by Clinton’s “settle for less,” do-nothing conservatism, which I feel betrays progressive values, at a time when the GOP is descending into self-parody and a progressive candidate can actually _win_. Obama and Clinton are very very similar in their ideologies. Did you think Obama was a republican when you voted for him? Someone posted an excellent article about why Clinton was being successful where Bush failed, and part of the reasoning of the author was that Bush was harking back to continuing the policies of the Bush administration where Clinton would be continuing the policies of Obama and Clinton. I see her as akin to Obama’s vp running. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/267 "2016-02-25T14:41:54Z")
> [@SlackerInc](#): > > I think that last claim is getting into what could be reasonably called hyperbolic scaremongering. I really don’t think Trump would put someone more right wing than Scalia on the court. But he’d definitely put someone more right wing than Hillary would, and that’s bad enough and reason enough to vote for her. Not anymore scaremongering than Trump himself. The KKK has endorsed the guy, 20% of his followers think the Emancipation Proclamation wasn’t a good idea. An old tape of Trump back in 1996 surfaced. He said on it that if he ran for President it would probably be as a Republican because “those people are so stupid, they get everything from FOX News” and he said his numbers would be huge. The guy is such a loose cannon that anything is possible. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/268 "2016-02-25T15:02:32Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > An old tape of Trump back in 1996 surfaced. He said on it that if he ran for President it would probably be as a Republican because “those people are so stupid, they get everything from FOX News” and he said his numbers would be huge. [Snopes says nope.](http://www.snopes.com/1998-trump-people-quote/) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/269 "2016-02-25T15:49:12Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > An old tape of Trump back in 1996 surfaced. He said on it that if he ran for President it would probably be as a Republican because “those people are so stupid, they get everything from FOX News” and he said his numbers would be huge. Fox news was launched in October 1996. There’s no way he said that. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/270 "2016-02-25T15:49:23Z")
Plus those comments in re Fox News in 1996 (the year it was created) don’t make a lot of sense. Fox News hadn’t really caught on yet, for the first few years of its existence it wasn’t even available in most homes and had very low viewership. Rupert Murdoch adopted a strategy of paying cable providers to carry it (normally cable works the opposite way, with the cable companies paying channels $x/mo per subscriber) to increase its distribution. Fox News distribution had gotten it in enough homes by the early 2000s that it was primed for a big ratings jump, which it got during the invasion of Iraq in 2003, largely because conservative Americans were put off by the fairly anti-war analysis and interpretations of the operation by CNN and talking heads like Wolf Blitzer. When Fox realized that was where the ratings were it really double down on its conservative talking head shows (O’Reilly Factor and Hannity & Colmes, shows which had been on the channel for years but hadn’t yet reached high levels of viewership), it totally overhauled itself to be “THE Right Wing channel” and its ratings spiked and it never looked back, I don’t think CNN has ever taken the cable news ratings crown back since the mid-2000s. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/271 "2016-02-25T16:25:51Z")
It seems to me that all these repugs are running to his defense, but the guy is outrageous in calling a lot of people dumb and various other names in his own party. if you think he’s not laughing at people you’re mistaken. He’s in this for sport as much as anything. The sentiment from Trump, oh yeah, he loves the poorly educated. Keep em stupid, then they’ll vote for him. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/272 "2016-02-25T16:31:07Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > It seems to me that all these repugs are running to his defense, but the guy is outrageous in calling a lot of people dumb and various other names in his own party. if you think he’s not laughing at people you’re mistaken. He’s in this for sport as much as anything. The sentiment from Trump, oh yeah, he loves the poorly educated. Keep em stupid, then they’ll vote for him. You appear to have been wrong in your accusation in this case. Acknowledging that will improve your credibility generally. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/273 "2016-02-25T16:44:16Z")
God help me that i was ever wrong about that Racist bastard. David Duke is supporting him and is trying to get all his followers to canvass for Trump. If that’s not people trying to exploit idiots I don’t know what is. > **[David Duke Urges His Supporters To Volunteer And Vote For Trump](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/andrewkaczynski/david-duke-urges-his-supporters-to-volunteer-and-vote-for-tr)** > > "Voting against Donald Trump at this point is really treason to your heritage." ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/274 "2016-02-25T17:09:31Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > God help me that i was ever wrong about that Racist bastard. > David Duke is supporting him and is trying to get all his followers to canvass for Trump. If that’s not people trying to exploit idiots I don’t know what is. > > [David Duke Urges His Supporters To Volunteer And Vote For Trump](http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/david-duke-urges-his-supporters-to-volunteer-and-vote-for-tr#.erpkBYWv6) When you have a “throw everything at the wall and some might stick” style, and when one of the things you throw is false, it makes everything you say less credible. Own up to bad sources and this effect is lessened or reversed. Right now, I’m not bothering with your links because I don’t trust that you’ve vetted them. ---
**Author:** ![Andiethewestie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba9def/32.png) [@Andiethewestie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andiethewestie)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/275 "2016-02-25T17:16:33Z")
Can we dispense with the pretense? Because I am supporting Hillary? Please. You’re too transparent. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/276 "2016-02-25T17:23:55Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Can we dispense with the pretense? Because I am supporting Hillary? Please. You’re too transparent. You’re being pretty ridiculous. I point out that you believed an obvious lie and so I’m a “repug” and jsgoddess is just hating on a Hillary supporter. You’re madly flailing about. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/277 "2016-02-25T17:23:59Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Can we dispense with the pretense? Because I am supporting Hillary? Please. You’re too transparent. Let’s dispel with this fiction that we have any idea what you’re saying here. We have no idea what you’re saying. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/278 "2016-02-25T17:58:00Z")
> [@Andiethewestie](#): > > Can we dispense with the pretense? Because I am supporting Hillary? Please. You’re too transparent. Well, it appears I’m so transparent that you can’t see me at all. But I’m feeling super confident about your arguments now. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/279 "2016-02-25T20:49:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > You’re being pretty ridiculous. I point out that you believed an obvious lie and so I’m a “repug” and jsgoddess is just hating on a Hillary supporter. You’re madly flailing about. It’s true. And I say this as a Hillary supporter (ask anyone). You are not helping. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2016, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/280 "2016-02-26T04:31:41Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Obama and Clinton are very very similar in their ideologies. Did you think Obama was a republican when you voted for him? > > Someone posted an excellent article about why Clinton was being successful where Bush failed, and part of the reasoning of the author was that Bush was harking back to continuing the policies of the Bush administration where Clinton would be continuing the policies of Obama and Clinton. I see her as akin to Obama’s vp running. Yeah, and? Obama’s foreign policy staff have been awful, sorry. Remember, “Shoulda had a better dad?” Helping topple Gadhafi without the consent of Congress? Blowing up stable, secular, reasonably progressive dictators & unleashing Daesh? On economics, Obama’s team was too happy to stop with bailing out Wall Street banks, while washing their hands of the great numbers of Americans who lost their homes. I would like better, is that OK with you? Being his VP, or his Sec’y of State, or his SecDef, or whatever, doesn’t make you a better candidate than the alternatives. She has to be better than him, not just only slightly worse. I think it’s time for a change. Not a sex-change, but a political change. And a lot of low-information voters will agree with me, and I bet some of them will vote for Trump over another Ivy League elitist. Bernie will already be handicapped more than helped being of Obama’s party. But at least he has a program to offer people. Hillary’s base is little old ladies who want to see Wonder Woman inaugurated before they die, and that’s the extent of what she offers over Bernie. Can you understand how offensive that is to Americans who have lost their homes? So, yes, I want Hillary to fail. I want her to fall to Bernie now; that’s probably best. If she wins the general election, I want her to be challenged from the left in four years; that’s great. But for the sake of a long-term marriage of progressives & the Democratic Party brand, Hillary being nominated and losing big is OK too, because I can rub the faces of privileged Second Wave feminists, Yale men, and neoliberals in their abject loss to a nationalist punk amateur and their inability to win the votes of the poor with a mercenary elitist like Hillary Rodham C. If she can win without my vote, fine, good luck to her. But for an effective national party, you need the populists. Bernie has them, and Trump may be able to con them once; Hillary, though, is just another bankster/aristocrat. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466.md?page=15)