# For Sanders fans who plan on sitting out if Bernie is not nominated **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 18, 2016, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466 "2016-02-18T18:04:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/41 "2016-02-21T01:31:11Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > And when president Cruz attends the third swearing in of a Supreme Court Justice he nominated, those folks can sit back and beam with pride that they’ve caused generations of misery. And their smug satisfaction at sticking it to Hill-dawg, I’m sure will be totes worth it. And there are people who believe that this sort of thing is good in the long term to bring about the change they want. _shrug_ ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/42 "2016-02-21T01:37:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Wait, **Shayna** , did you actually call Clinton a “centrist” and “Dick Cheney in a lady suit” in the same post? Do you actually think that Cheney is a centrist? I’d probably advise that much like I did, you give that screed little attention. When someone is in the midst of a mouth-foaming fit of hatred for someone that doesn’t know they exist and to whom they are little more than a fly on the windshield it’s not surprising when they delve into illogical statements. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/43 "2016-02-21T05:15:47Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > Nothing else matters this year but getting the right to pick Bader Ginsberg’s replacement. That sort of thinking is why you lose. There is a lot more going on than that. OK, let’s talk about the judiciary. The whole judiciary, not just the Supremes. Have you noticed that the Senate is refusing to confirm Obama’s judicial appointments? You have to build a party and take back Congress. Your state got gerrymandered? Get a referendum on the ballot to redraw districts, if you have to stand in the hot sun with a sheaf of petitions your own self. I’m getting annoyed at low sights and defeatism. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/44 "2016-02-21T05:22:15Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > And as everyone who follows knows (unless it makes their preferred candidate look good) these hypothetical matchup polls have almost no predictive value. Do they have\* negative \*predictive value? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/45 "2016-02-21T05:52:31Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > And there are people who believe that this sort of thing is good in the long term to bring about the change they want. _shrug_ If someone thinks fucking the SCOTUS for the next two or three decades, is a reasonable price to pay for incrementally getting a fringe candidate a marginally better showing, I’d suggest that person probably has no idea what that entails. Both sides aren’t equal. The GOP isn’t evil, but it might as well be for the real damage its policies cause human beings. Giving them a blank check is and total control is utterly insane. All this so some Bernie-fan (mind you, I’m a fan myself) shrugs his shoulders and says, “Well, abortion is outlawed, and civil rights is in the toilet, there’s no minimum wage, we’re at war with Iran, there’s no safety net, 50 million people are uninsured, but Bernie got 15% as a write-in candidate!” ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/46 "2016-02-21T06:30:37Z")
i would think that because of the supreme court issue, most diehard Sanders supporters will hold their noses and vote for Clinton. I also expect that if the race continues to be as close as it is with Sanders getting support above 40 percent in most other states then Clinton will have to make some concessions to Bernie’s platform to woo his voters. Bernie has achieved something great, which is getting new generation involved in politics, I’d like to think most of them will stay involved even if Bernie doesn’t win. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/47 "2016-02-21T07:02:33Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > If someone thinks fucking the SCOTUS for the next two or three decades, is a reasonable price to pay for incrementally getting a fringe candidate a marginally better showing, I’d suggest that person probably has no idea what that entails. > > Both sides aren’t equal. The GOP isn’t evil, but it might as well be for the real damage its policies cause human beings. Giving them a blank check is and total control is utterly insane. > > All this so some Bernie-fan (mind you, I’m a fan myself) shrugs his shoulders and says, “Well, abortion is outlawed, and civil rights is in the toilet, there’s no minimum wage, we’re at war with Iran, there’s no safety net, 50 million people are uninsured, but Bernie got 15% as a write-in candidate!” I was thinking about this, and I think the same. But I get the sense that if that happens, they’ll shrug and say, “It’s not my fault. If the establishment and their candidates couldn’t put up people who’d fight for me, then why is it my responsibility to vote for them? This disaster is on them for being bought by Wall Street and supporting neocons in disguise like Clinton.” ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/48 "2016-02-21T07:11:24Z")
It is a quandary for as even the left wing socialist **[counterpunch.org](http://counterpunch.org)** writes: [Smash Clintonism: Why Democrats, Not Republicans, are the Problem](http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/02/05/smash-clintonism-why-democrats-not-republicans-are-the-problem/) > [@](#): > > For anyone who cares about economic, racial and gender equality, and about restoring basic rights and liberties and establishing a just and humane social order – and for anyone who wants to diminish murder and mayhem and terrorism around the world, and to protect the earth and everything in it from the ravages of capitalist greed – getting the United States off the neoliberal-neoconservative track that it has been on since at least the late 1970s should be Priority Number One. > > This means that the first order of business now is defeating Hillary Clinton. The larger goal of ridding the world of Clintonism, Clinton-style neoliberal-neoconservative politics, will require a protracted struggle lasting years, but sending Hillary packing, the sooner the better, is a good first step. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/49 "2016-02-21T09:41:24Z")
nvm ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/50 "2016-02-21T10:18:09Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I was thinking about this, and I think the same. But I get the sense that if that happens, they’ll shrug and say, “It’s not my fault. If the establishment and their candidates couldn’t put up people who’d fight for me, then why is it my responsibility to vote for them? This disaster is on them for being bought by Wall Street and supporting neocons in disguise like Clinton.” Your (well, _their_) point is (will be) well taken, but it overlooks the fact that it is EVERYONE’S responsibility to deny the Whiite House to the Republicans. I issued a decree, not a magic spell. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/51 "2016-02-21T10:25:34Z")
I’m barely even a Democrat these days. I’m angry at the party and have been for a while. People I thoughtlessly assumed were basically decent turned out to use state violence in racist ways. I can vote for Bernie; even if he gets mathematically eliminated, & it’s just a protest vote in my state’s primary. But voting for Bernie will not only be voting against a woman I believe to be dangerously corrupt & ultimately unreliable, but also challenging the present form of the party–the Democratic Party of HRC. I reject a party whose government fires on first responders when it assassinates people in other countries. I despise the old guard of “moderate” Democrats that have ties to killer cops in my state. I can maybe work with Democrats in 2018 to run against a President Trump or Kasich’s record. But it’s going to be hard for me to support Hillary at any level, in any way, at any point, given that I already think she prostituted the State Dep’t to profit Bubba. I _can’t_ effectively campaign for her, I won’t even vote for her myself. So, yeah, while I might vote for her if it looks like Missouri’s contest is close, a Green protest vote is about where I’ll be if she’s the nominee. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/52 "2016-02-21T10:31:04Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > That sort of thinking is why you lose. There is a lot more going on than that. > > OK, let’s talk about the judiciary. The whole judiciary, not just the Supremes. Have you noticed that the Senate is refusing to confirm Obama’s judicial appointments? > > You have to build a party and take back Congress. Your state got gerrymandered? Get a referendum on the ballot to redraw districts, if you have to stand in the hot sun with a sheaf of petitions your own self. > > I’m getting annoyed at low sights and defeatism. You’re right that we need to build a Party and Take back Congress. But that’s a goal that needs a long term plan. It’s not happening in its entirety this year. Even if everything breaks right for the Dems this year, there aren’t enough seats up for grabs to take the House. We might - might - get lucky and get the Senate back, but that’s only if we get lucky. We can and should start working to elect more dems in more seats. That’s important. But that’s not going to take back Congress this year. OTOH, we only get a chance to elect a President once every four years. This is our chance and our priority has to be to capitalize on it. I agree that we need to focus on building the whole party, but given that we aren’t going to solve that problem in this one election, we need to make sure that we don’t give away a the store in the short term. And, by the by - what exactly is Bernie doing to convert his supporters into votes for down ticket Dems? I would like to see more effort in that direction from him, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/53 "2016-02-21T10:57:11Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Which is \*all the more reason \* to abandon this loser now before it ever comes to that. In poll after poll after poll, Americans are telling you that [Hillary **loses** to every Republican and Bernie \*\*wins \*\*](Check out @jillwklausen’s Tweet: [x.com](https://twitter.com/jillwklausen/status/701117023665856512?s=09)). So don’t put up a loser; it’s as simple as that. Look, I’m a Commie and I would be delighted to see Bernie beat Hillary. While I’m sure she’d be a reasonably fine President, in that she’s sane and smart, I still think that she’s a very weak candidate, in that she’s compromised and unlikable. But you can’t simultaneously argue that Hillary will lose to the Republicans while Bernie while win, when in fact, Bernie is losing to Hillary. If Bernie can’t beat the compromised and unlikable Hillary, then he is not the best person for the job of beating the Republicans (even though the Republicans are on the verge of nominating the pigfucker.). Yes, I know Hillary is stacking the deck in her favor, and lying through her teeth. The Republican candidate will do that, too. Bernie needs to conquer, not just come close. If Bernie wins, I will be delighted. If Hillary wins, I will be disappointed. If a Republican wins, we will all be living in the last days of the American Experiment. However rotten Hillary is, there is simply no comparison with the Republican contenders. Being angry and disappointed with the Democrats is a personal luxury. We need to use our energy to accomplish our goals. Being angry and sabotaging ourselves by refusing to vote for whoever wins the nomination is just playing into the hands of our enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/54 "2016-02-21T13:25:36Z")
> [@](#): > > But you can’t simultaneously argue that Hillary will lose to the Republicans while Bernie while win, when in fact, Bernie is losing to Hillary. Sure you can. I’ll hold off on any opinion of whether it actually is true, but it certainly can be true. Primary electorates are not the same as general election electorates, and one specific party’s primary electorate _certainly_ is not the same as the general election electorate. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/55 "2016-02-21T13:51:09Z")
Agreed it could be true, even if I think in this case it is not. Typically that dynamic works the other direction: the candidate that can pass the muster a party’s base in the primaries because they take the more extreme position is not as appealing in the general to the entire population. But theoretically it _could_ be that a candidate who taps into an across party lines anti-establishment zeitgeist would do better in a general than the less extreme candidate who has the support of those who believe working by way of the systems that exist who dominate a primary process. Question: Will BERNIE sit it out if not nominated? And here I am not so much even talking about working for the party’s presidential candidate, but working to help relatively progressive Democrats win down ticket races. Let us assume that he has pushed Hillary leftward on her way to the nomination, does he follow up with working to create the Congress that can actually implement those progressive agenda items? Will he work to create the turnout that is required to make progressive agenda items more than empty words? Or feel that is helping a party that he is not really a member of and not bother unless he is at its head? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/56 "2016-02-21T16:32:51Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Question: Will BERNIE sit it out if not nominated? I **really** don’t think so (assuming “sit it out” means “refuse to endorse Clinton”–if you mean “not run third party,” I really think so 🙂 ). Bernie is a politician with decades of experience, and his experience shows him to be fairly sober in enacting policies he wants. Thinking he’ll sit out if not nominated implies that he’s suffered a major change of character, that he’s stopped being a far leftist who looks for ways of furthering a leftist agenda, and has started being a far leftist with megalomania who only cares about self-aggrandizement. The only way his campaign is in keeping with his history is if he’s primarily interested in furthering a leftist agenda, and entered the race in order to push the conversation to the left. I don’t wager on these boards normally, but I’ll issue a sig line wager with anyone interested. I believe Sanders will lose the Democratic nomination and will formally endorse Clinton. I think he will urge his supporters to support Clinton at the same time, and he will urge them to work for progressive, electable candidates at all levels. I think he’ll have done all this by the Democratic Convention. Anyone disagree with me? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/57 "2016-02-21T17:17:10Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I don’t wager on these boards normally, but I’ll issue a sig line wager with anyone interested. I believe Sanders will lose the Democratic nomination and will formally endorse Clinton. I think he will urge his supporters to support Clinton at the same time, and he will urge them to work for progressive, electable candidates at all levels. I think he’ll have done all this by the Democratic Convention. > > Anyone disagree with me? I agree with you. I don’t think Bernie himself feels the vitriol for Clinton that his supporters do. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/58 "2016-02-21T17:19:54Z")
**LHOD** , you will, I’m sure, be glad to know that my mighty predictive powers indicate that your expectation is correct. > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I vote as a Californian. You’ll have to work a little harder to convince me that my sitting out the election will give California to the Republicans. > > In 2012, the results were 7,854,285 (60.24%) D, and 4,839,958 R (37.12%). > > If the numbers are at all similar, my little protest would have to be joined by 3,000,000 other people, or 17% of the registered voters in the state (by 2015 numbers), and nearly 25% of the voters who actually turned out for the election; if my math is right, that would be 40% of the Democrats. > > In the unlikely event that 40% of the party’s voters sit out the general election because they don’t like the candidate, the other party deserves to win. But I think my little protest will be consequence-free. Okay, but this cuts both ways. If Bernie is the nominee, your vote is similarly impotent to help him win the general election. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/59 "2016-02-21T17:30:12Z")
I think Bernie will endorse Clinton and support her in the general election. However, I see him doing more campaigning for Senate and House candidates rather than for Clinton. Bernie would be an effective advocate for Russ Feingold, Tammy Duckworth, and a few other winnable Senate races. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466/60 "2016-02-21T18:59:29Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Which is \*all the more reason \* to abandon this loser now before it ever comes to that. In poll after poll after poll, Americans are telling you that [Hillary **loses** to every Republican and Bernie \*\*wins \*\*](Check out @jillwklausen’s Tweet: [x.com](https://twitter.com/jillwklausen/status/701117023665856512?s=09)). So don’t put up a loser; it’s as simple as that. Forget it, Shayna. The Hillary supporters here care about actual data as much as Young Earth Creationists do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-sanders-fans-who-plan-on-sitting-out-if-bernie-is-not-nominated/746466.md?page=4)