For The Audiophile With More Dollars Than Sense

[dropzone]

@Steve_MB

I prefer to avoid thinking about how rich I could be with how little effort if I weren’t encumbered with such an inconvenient sense of ethics and self-respect…

When I got into the biz I brought my Junior Socialist conscience, but finally justified it by telling myself that I was helping to get their money back into the economy, and if some of it passed through my wallet that was okay. But we didn’t rip them off. We were expensive because of size of the projects, and we had proprietary software to control everything, before anybody could do that from his iPad.

Our cables weren’t by Monster because anybody could get those at Best Buy, but they were the least expensive from a manufacturer from further upscale–fancy name for the [del]rubes[/del] people who are impressed by names, but good, solid cables that didn’t pick up pilots’ conversations with the tower. With long cable runs in 20-person home theater you have to think about things like that.

@Sattua

My husband designs, builds, and sells boutique audio equipment for a living. He’s at an odd price point where a lot of the high-end guys won’t even look at his stuff because of its sane prices, even though the specs and reviews are excellent.

About once a month we have a serious conversation about what he could do to break into that market. It’s easy to say “rename the existing product at three times the price”, and I always do say that, but he has a conscience or something. He would want the insides to be somehow different, and to somehow justify the price differential.

I applaud him for his principles, but principles don’t put food on the table and it sounds like he is not running a business, but instead has a hobby that brings in some money. I’ve been through this moral quandary and I have realized that there are some people who LIKE to pay more for exclusivity. Give some of his customers what they want with an exclusive “signature” line and give the rest his “crappy” regular stuff and see how many want to upgrade.

@Stringbean

This is really not that accurate.

Audio hardware is one arena where, simply put, you get what you pay for.

Very true, to a point, and anybody who denies it hasn’t heard well-matched, top-notch equipment in a properly tuned environment. The cable mess is one place where we get to laugh at suckers, but most of high-end audio is expensive because it is damned good. And a lot cheaper, adjusted for inflation, than it used to be.

But yes, Magiver, there is a subset of manufacturers who are in it for the money, and some who believe their own hype. I was at a demo of a pair of speakers that retailed at $250,000, and the coked-up CEO said, “Yeah, we use the same $30 drivers as everybody else, but the difference is in the cabinets.” I did a mental calculation of the cost of materials and manufacturing and at the time it would be hard to make them for less than $5,000/pr, but a quarter mill? Barnum was right.

[Sattua]

@dropzone

I applaud him for his principles, but principles don’t put food on the table and it sounds like he is not running a business, but instead has a hobby that brings in some money.

Lord. I guess you told me.

[dropzone]

Did I misspeak? I’ve been doing that a lot lately.

[Sattua]

@dropzone

Did I misspeak? I’ve been doing that a lot lately.

It may be a hobby but it brings in twice as much money as his day job did, with way less stress and concomitant improvement of his health. It’s certainly plenty to put food on the table–and he gets to be at home while our daughter is young. Can’t ask for much more than that.

[dropzone]

Wow! When most guys turn their hobbies into careers it doesn’t have such a happy ending. Though he could be making more with a little mental shift.

Really, either post a link or PM me a link to his stuff. I know people who might be interested in grade A bespoke equipment at a fair price.

[Magiver]

@jz78817

as for speakers, it really doesn’t cost a lot to make a decent speaker. I work primarily in automotive audio; I can show you a $5 OEM 6.5" midwoofer that is a far better speaker than an aftermarket one with a retail price tag of $200.

I wouldn’t mind a hint on that speaker. have to replace my door speakers.

[dropzone]

Yeah, me too. I like quality inexpensive equipment better than expensive equipment, and I’m a reverse snob about it.

[Stringbean]

I suppose I should have qualified my earlier remarks by mentioning that I really meant to refer to engineering tools–microphones, preamps, compressors, equalizers, etc.

If you’re just building a home stereo system then you can certainly get by on a moderate budget.

[dropzone]

Compressors? Equalizers? So you’re compensating for inadequate equipment?

BTW, Sattua sent me a link to her husband’s business and I was already familiar with it and almost bought some back when I was [del]rich[/del] less poor. Good stuff to be a reverse snob about. I hope she links us all.

[Joey_P]

@Steve_MB

Missing Link

Better missing link (the mouseover)

[dropzone]

Well, that’s just stupid! EVERYBODY knows you need MALE RCA connectors on the XBox end.

But with efficient speakers you can get plenty of sound pressure for most uses with 5 Watts.

[Sattua]

@dropzone

BTW, Sattua sent me a link to her husband’s business and I was already familiar with it and almost bought some back when I was [del]rich[/del] less poor. Good stuff to be a reverse snob about. I hope she links us all.

You are a darling.

[Enter_the_Flagon]

@Magiver

And many of us are aware that money doesn’t equal quality in sound equipment and pursue the proverbial best bang for the buck when listening to things like the 1812 overture.

I see what you did there.

I’m remembering what Bruce Rozenblit said about audio cables, which was that you might well hear a difference between them, but that’s no guarantee that the expensive ones won’t sound worse than the cheap ones. I suppose that wouldn’t be enough to dissuade some people from paying more, though would it?

[QUOTE=dropzone]
BTW, Sattua sent me a link to her husband’s business and I was already familiar with it and almost bought some back when I was rich less poor. Good stuff to be a reverse snob about. I hope she links us all.
[/QUOTE]

Sattua, how about it? If you linked us all, would that be considered spamming? Cause we wouldn’t tell.

[Sattua]

I’d rather not post a link, for reasons of not being a SDMB paid member, and preserving my illusion of internet anonymity. I’m happy to chat via PM, though.

[jz78817]

@Enter_the_Flagon

I see what you did there.

I’m remembering what Bruce Rozenblit said about audio cables, which was that you might well hear a difference between them, but that’s no guarantee that the expensive ones won’t sound worse than the cheap ones. I suppose that wouldn’t be enough to dissuade some people from paying more, though would it?

the problem is that the speakers themselves have two orders of magnitude more distortion and frequency response deviation than pretty much any cable. Further, the room you put your system in has an equally profound effect on the sound of the system. So worrying about a theoretical 0.001% difference between RCA cables or speaker wires is pointless.

[Max_Torque]

@Fiveyearlurker

I was just reading this who “proves” that there is a sufficient difference in the quality of a 50,000 dollar setup based on the fact that at an audio show, he was able to guess which was the better speaker cable 4 out of 5 times.

Leaving aside the issue that 4 out of 5 isn’t particularly impressive, wouldn’t you want to be able to easily identify the better setup every single time without even trying in order to justify the cost?

Statistical anomalies happen all the time; in a game I play, where your odds of winning the top prize are supposed to be 99:1 odds, a few days ago I hit the top prize three times in a row. It’s freaky, but it does happen.

A more true test would be a setup of ten otherwise-identical systems in ten identical rooms, then letting him select which one has the top-end cables and which one is strung together with coat hangers. The problem is that setting up such a test is cost-prohibitive just to prove one arrogant asshole wrong.

[jz78817]

@Max_Torque

Statistical anomalies happen all the time; in a game I play, where your odds of winning the top prize are supposed to be 99:1 odds, a few days ago I hit the top prize three times in a row. It’s freaky, but it does happen.

A more true test would be a setup of ten otherwise-identical systems in ten identical rooms, then letting him select which one has the top-end cables and which one is strung together with coat hangers. The problem is that setting up such a test is cost-prohibitive just to prove one arrogant asshole wrong.

there’s a routine called “ABX” or “double-blind” testing that’s intended to address this kind of thing. You have two things to evaluate, and the ability to switch between them. The test has you evaluate thing “A,” then thing “B”, then thing “X” where “X” can be either “A” or “B.” The tester has to be able to determine whether “X” is “A” or “B” consistently before there can be a claim of a perceptible difference. the keys here is neither the tester, nor anyone setting up the test knows which of the two are “A” or “B” (thus the “double-blind” bit.) It’s also important that ABX can only help demonstrate a difference between two things, it does not determine whether one is “better.”

[Enter_the_Flagon]

@jz78817

the problem is that the speakers themselves have two orders of magnitude more distortion and frequency response deviation than pretty much any cable. Further, the room you put your system in has an equally profound effect on the sound of the system. So worrying about a theoretical 0.001% difference between RCA cables or speaker wires is pointless.

I think we agree. I mentioned cables only because it’s a better example than speakers, in that a set of speakers that sells for $1000 will almost always be more accurate than those that sell for $100 (and, dropzone, I’d be surprised if a manufacturer can buy a Scan Speak Revelator for $30, but I’m willing to be proved wrong. I think your CEO is even more FOS than you seem to, if that’s possible).

[QUOTE=Sattua]

I’d rather not post a link, for reasons of not being a SDMB paid member, and preserving my illusion of internet anonymity. I’m happy to chat via PM, though.

[/QUOTE]

I hear and obey.

[MikeG]

Hey jz, mind if I Pm you for speaker suggestions for my e36? I picked up some upgraded ones but I bet I can do better.

[dropzone]

@jz78817

Further, the room you put your system in has an equally profound effect on the sound of the system.

The room is extremely important. Had a top theater designer do one that had curved, perforated steel panels for walls. I did not scream too loudly because I was low dog in the room, but went to my Minnesota passive-aggressive ways to verify that it was what he wanted. The client was happy with the results, but I still hope his kids blew up the enormous Chihuly chandelier when they cranked it.

@Enter_the_Flagon

I think your CEO is even more FOS than you seem to, if that’s possible).

Undoubtedly, but manufactured cost of $5 or 6000/pair is still in line. This is the same company that quoted me “a buck and a quarter” for left, center, right, four surrounds, and four subs. Though the homeowner had already dropped $300M on building the house, even we thought $1.25M was a bit dear.