# For the Bushistas. Tell me how good things are.
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 19, 2003, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118 "2003-08-19T03:23:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/1 "2003-08-19T03:23:29Z")
I see peoples lives turned upside down. Millions of jobs lost. I programs cut that help millions of people. I see our lands being turned over to the highest bidder. I see families losing sons and and daughters in a God forsaken war.
Convince me things are good. Show me the silver lining. Prove to me my government has us in mind and not big business and big contributors.
It won’t be hard to do will it?
---
### Author:  [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/2 "2003-08-19T03:52:42Z")
You are a partisan pessimist, among other things. Short of giving you sacks of money, you will never be convinced of the things you ask. It is supremely disingenuous of you to ask a question that you _know_ will never be answered to your twisted satisfaction.
---
### Author:  [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/3 "2003-08-19T03:54:53Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Reeder \*
> \*\*Convince me things are good. \*\*
Convincing you looks difficult. OTOH convincing a majority of the voters will be a piece of cake.
---
### Author:  [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/4 "2003-08-19T04:10:46Z")
I’m about the furthest thing from a Bushista, but I’ll play.
I personally know maybe 20-30 people who I keep in touch with regularly. Most work in oilfield services, domestically, out of Houston. Some are involved with parmaceuticals, in a training and development capacity. Some are in property management. A couple are retired. We’ve laid a couple people off recently; I’m curious why, if Bush is supposed to be so great for the oil industry, that our domestic business, which is dependent on drilling activity, has been down. Well, actually one of our best marketing folk quit, so that put kind of hitch in things. We’ve hired two more in the past couple of weeks, and it looks like one of them will work out pretty well.
My sister just got a rather high-paying job after about 6 months of on-and off searching. Her Aussie boyfriend has been out of work for a while, but this is mainly because his chosen field is in an area where most of the available work is with government agencies requiring a security clearance, which as a foreign national he apparently can’t get. He’s currently trying to pick up some consultancy work.
I know a few strippers; they say things suck right now, but the stripping business always sucks in August.
In all the above, I really can’t see any influence of the Bush presidency one way or another.
I don’t personally know anyone in the military, much less among the occupying forces in Iraq, so I can’t comment on that.
I’ve seen things a lot worse. Houston’s economy seems to be perking along reasonably well.
I’m afraid I’m not entirely sure what the OP is on about.
---
### Author:  [@cheddarsnax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cheddarsnax)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/5 "2003-08-19T04:10:51Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Reeder \*
> **I see peoples lives turned upside down. Millions of jobs lost. I programs cut that help millions of people. I see our lands being turned over to the highest bidder. I see families losing sons and and daughters in a God forsaken war.**
Convince me you’re not lying.
> [@](#):
>
> **Convince me things are good. Show me the silver lining. Prove to me my government has us in mind and not big business and big contributors.**
Is that possible? Or is the only point you’ll be making in this thread going to be that you are not going to change your opinion?
---
### Author:  [@Publius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Publius)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/6 "2003-08-19T04:19:54Z")
In the Administration’s defense, I have been quite impressed that there have not been any major acts of terrorism within the United States since September 11. Whether it is right to say that President Bush has anything to do with this, I don’t know, but the fact itself stands in wonderful contrast to the hysterical predictions of gloom and doom that gripped the country immediately after the 2001 attacks.
---
### Author:  [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/7 "2003-08-19T04:23:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Millions of jobs lost
I don’t really have a dog in this fight but…
[http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm](http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm)
> [@](#):
>
> ```
> THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION: JULY 2003
>
> ```
>
> Both the unemployment rate and nonfarm payroll employment edged down in
> July, the Bureau of Labor Statistics of the U.S. Department of Labor reported
> today. Payroll employment has declined for the past 6 months. Job losses
> continued in manufacturing, while temporary help and other administrative
> services added workers.
>
> Unemployment (Household Survey Data)
>
> The unemployment rate was 6.2 percent in July; the number of unemployed
> persons was 9.1 million. Both measures edged down over the month, largely
> offsetting increases in June. Over the month, jobless rates for adult men
> (5.9 percent), teenagers (18.4 percent), and blacks (11.1 percent) edged
> down from levels reached in June. Jobless rates for adult women (5.2 per-
> cent), whites (5.5 percent), and Hispanics (8.2 percent) showed little or
> no change in July. The unemployment rate for Asians was 6.2 percent, not
> seasonally adjusted. (See tables A-1, A-2, and A-3.)
>
> In July, the number of persons unemployed for less than 5 weeks decreased
> by 279,000. There were 2.0 million unemployed persons who had been looking
> for work for 27 weeks or longer, about the same level as in June. They rep-
> resented 21.7 percent of the total unemployed. (See table A-9.)
>
> Total Employment and the Labor Force (Household Survey Data)
>
> The civilian labor force decreased by 556,000 in July to 146.5 million.
> This decline follows an increase of a similar magnitude in June. The labor
> force participation rate fell to 66.2 percent. This matches the recent low
> for the series, previously reached in March. In July, total employment was
> down slightly to 137.5 million, and the employment-population ratio declined
> to 62.1 percent. (See table A-1.)
>
> Persons Not in the Labor Force (Household Survey Data)
>
> In July, about 1.6 million persons (not seasonally adjusted) were
> marginally attached to the labor force, little changed from a year earlier.
> These individuals wanted and were available to work and had looked for a
> job sometime in the prior 12 months. They were not counted as unemployed,
> however, because they did not actively search for work in the 4 weeks
> preceding the survey. Of the 1.6 million, 470,000 were discouraged workers
> who were not currently looking for work specifically because they believed
> no jobs were available for them. The other 1.1 million marginally attached
> had not searched for work for reasons such as child-care or transportation
> problems. (See table A-13.)
---
### Author:  [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/8 "2003-08-19T04:27:57Z")
Stock markets up 25-30% since March!
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### Author:  [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/9 "2003-08-19T04:31:54Z")
> [@](#):
>
> Convince me things are good.
As demonstrated by **Brutus** _et. al._ the pubbies have so lost their tenuous hold on the realities of life in America, that they respond to anything that could conceivably challenge their worldview with personal attacks on the source of the irritation, rather than rational discourse. From the standpoint of turning the country around, things couldn’t get much better than that.
---
### Author:  [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/10 "2003-08-19T04:33:05Z")
We’ve already done this in another thread. The fact is, almost all the major leading economic indicators are up. The Dow is up, consumer confidence is up, inventories are down, manufacturing investment is picking up, etc.
A survey of 55 leading economists has the median estimate for economic growth next year pegged at 3.6%. That’s a good growth rate, the highest since 9/11. Not as high as the late 90’s, but then that was a bubble economy, and growth rates like that shouldn’t be expected. Not as high as it could be - there’s probably room for another percent or percent and a half before you’d have to start saying the economy is ‘hot’, but maybe the best we can hope for at a time when every business decision is made in the shadow of the spectre of another major terrorist attack throwing the economy back into recession
If that growth rate holds next year, You’ll see serious job pressure building in in the first-second quarter of next year - just in time for the election!
Sleep tight.
---
### Author:  [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/11 "2003-08-19T04:47:14Z")
Talk about “losing their tenuous hold on reality,” this statement by **december** takes the cake:
> [@](#):
>
> **Convincing you looks difficult. OTOH convincing a majority of the voters will be a piece of cake.**
Reality check:
> [@](#):
>
> \*\*Public confidence in America’s military involvement in Iraq has eroded recently with 42 percent of U.S. adults now describing themselves as “not certain” that committing troops to war was the right thing to do.
>
> \
>
> The poll, taken during two weeks ending Aug. 12, found a broad drop in commitment for U.S. involvement in Iraq over a similar survey taken in early May, shortly after President Bush declared an end to major military operations there. At that time, fewer than a third of Americans said they had doubts about the correctness of the war and the military occupation that followed.
>
> Bush’s approval rating also has dropped, with 52 percent saying they approve of what he has done as president, a 12-percentage point decline in less than three months and the lowest number yet recorded by the polls since he took office in January 2001. The general feeling that America is headed “in the right direction” has taken a hit recently as well
\*\*
[Oakland Tribune](http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82~1865~1570059,00.html)
Enjoy the cake.
---
### Author:  [@Conservative\_Evolutionist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Conservative_Evolutionist)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/12 "2003-08-19T05:04:08Z")
> [@](#):
>
> I see peoples lives turned upside down. Millions of jobs lost. I programs cut that help millions of people. I see our lands being turned over to the highest bidder. I see families losing sons and and daughters in a God forsaken war.
In the world I see, we are stalking elk past department store windows and stinking racks of beautiful rotting dresses and tuxedos on hangers; you’ll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life, and you’ll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. Jack and the beanstalk, you’ll climb up through the dripping forest canopy and the air will be so clean you’ll see tiny figures pounding corn and laying strips of venison to dry in the empty car pool lane of an abandoned superhighway stretching eight-lanes-wide and August-hot for a thousand miles.
We’re planting radishes and seed potatoes on the fifteenth green of a forgotten golf course. You’ll hunt elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center, and dig clams next to the skeleton of the Space Needle leaning at a forty-five degree angle. We’ll paint the skyscrapers with huge totem faces and goblin tikis, and every evening what’s left of mankind will retreat to empty zoos and lock itself in cages as protection against the bears and big cats and wolves that pace and watch us from outside the cage bars at night.
---
### Author:  [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/13 "2003-08-19T05:07:45Z")
Is this a debate?
Silly me, **Reeder** posted it, so of course it isn’t. Can’t you even trouble us with one of your partisan screeds like you usually do, **Reeder**? You disappoint me.
---
### Author:  [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/14 "2003-08-19T05:11:55Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Squink \*
> \*\*As demonstrated by **Brutus** _et. al._ the pubbies have so lost their tenuous hold on the realities of life in America, that they respond to anything that could conceivably challenge their worldview with personal attacks on the source of the irritation, rather than rational discourse. From the standpoint of turning the country around, things couldn’t get much better than that. \*\*
No worldviews were challenged by **Reeder’s** fatuitous question, I can assure you that.
He is asking for the unanswerable.
-Does he want actual economic facts and numbers? Extremely doubtfull, but those were already provided in **December’s** thread.
-Does he want just anecdotal stories about how great things are? Fine: My big concern now is whether to get a BMW, Volvo, or Lexus. How is that for anecdotal ‘evidence’ that things are great?
_(Hint: Anecdotal stories about how a person is doing mean jack-shit when discussing the state of the economy)_
And never use the phrase ‘rational discourse’ when talking about one of **Reeder’s** posts. If he asked serious questions, he would have gotten serious responses.
---
### Author:  [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/15 "2003-08-19T05:12:23Z")
I have to be honest, **Reeder** : I’m a liberal, but I can think of a dozen different ways I could have written that OP that would have gotten actual, serious answers, rather than understandably annoyed snipes.
If you actually want your threads to get serious responses, I’d suggest thinking harder about that next time.
---
### Author:  [@tigsnort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tigsnort)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/16 "2003-08-19T05:28:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by El\_Kabong \*
> \*\*I know a few strippers; they say things suck right now, but the stripping business always sucks in August. \*\*
I wonder why this is
Perhaps another thread.
---
### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/17 "2003-08-19T05:28:30Z")
I voted for Bush in the last election, and judging from what I can see so far from the Dems, will likely vote for him again. My work and my social life have almost nothing to do with which party has their man (or woman, someday) in the Whitehouse. As much as our country has way more government than I would want, it’s still a miniscule aspect in my daily life. The best thing the gov’t can do for me is leave me alone and let me get on with my own business. I don’t expect a president to create jobs-- I expexct private individuals to do that. I only hope that the gov’t will not raises taxes much and keep interest rates low. That seems to be happening more or less.
I expect the gov’t to keep our country safe and keep criminals at bay. As mentioned above, we’ve not had any serious domestic terror attacks since 9/11. That’s good. Let’s hope it stays that way. The Iraq situation is a messy business, and while I was not a fan of invading Iraq, I do believe the world is a better place without Saddam Hussein. And for all the noise being made about how Bush has isolated the US from the so-called international community, I see no evidence that our traditional allies are any less willing to work with us on our key objectives. The situation in NK is tenuous, but the world still looks at the US to take the lead. Ditto with the Israeli/Palestinian situation. Problems in Liberia-- who you gonna call? Hint: It wasn’t the French or Russians.
The last time I checked, there was still a longer line of immigrants wanting to get into this country than any other country on earth. People are not stupid when they choose where to go to better their own lives and those of their children.
**Reeder** : Don’t worry. It’s only one more year before you get to vote for your favorite Democrat. That’s one of the great things about this country. Enjoy it.
---
### Author:  [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/18 "2003-08-19T06:03:00Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Scylla \*
> Stock markets up 25-30% since March!
Not to give too much _gravitas_ to the OP ( **Leaper** summed up my view perfectly), but would it be too much to ask which way the stock market was going _before_ March?
---
### Author:  [@Fang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fang)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/19 "2003-08-19T06:36:32Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by John Mace \*
> \*\ ***Reeder** : Don’t worry. It’s only one more year before you get to vote for your favorite Democrat. That’s one of the great things about this country. Enjoy it. \*\*
Not if Bush cancels the election!!! Or steals it again like last time!!!
😃
---
### Author:  [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)
#### Post date: [August 19, 2003, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/20 "2003-08-19T07:01:15Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Conservative Evolutionist \*
> \*\*In the world I see, we are stalking elk past department store windows and stinking racks of beautiful rotting dresses and tuxedos on hangers; you’ll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life, and you’ll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. Jack and the beanstalk, you’ll climb up through the dripping forest canopy and the air will be so clean you’ll see tiny figures pounding corn and laying strips of venison to dry in the empty car pool lane of an abandoned superhighway stretching eight-lanes-wide and August-hot for a thousand miles.
> We’re planting radishes and seed potatoes on the fifteenth green of a forgotten golf course. You’ll hunt elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center, and dig clams next to the skeleton of the Space Needle leaning at a forty-five degree angle. We’ll paint the skyscrapers with huge totem faces and goblin tikis, and every evening what’s left of mankind will retreat to empty zoos and lock itself in cages as protection against the bears and big cats and wolves that pace and watch us from outside the cage bars at night. \*\*
Although I’m sure most people recognised the quote, if you are going to quote from films or books (say, \*\*[Fight Club\*\*](http://www.quotegarden.com/bk-fc.html) for example), it’s best for you to acknowledge the source in your post.
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