# For the Bushistas. Tell me how good things are. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 19, 2003, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118 "2003-08-19T03:23:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/41 "2003-08-19T20:40:28Z")
Oh! I just thought of something that’s better. I pay a little bit less in federal taxes. But I can’t help but worry about our new record-setting deficit. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/42 "2003-08-19T21:33:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*One thing has nothing to do with the other. GW is doing [pretty good](http://www.pollkatz.homestead.com/files/gallupcharts1.gif), poll-wise, compared to our recent presidents. If things were a fraction as dire as **Reeder** and Co. want us to believe, shouldn’t GW’s ratings be the ‘lowest ever’, _when compared to other presidents_? \*\* Perhaps, but polls don’t always tell the whole story, unless you believe that Clinton’s (also relatively) high approval ratings during the Lewinsky scandal meant that the American populace approves of oral sex in the White House… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/43 "2003-08-19T21:54:04Z")
And this just in: CNN poll being conducted this afternoon _Is Iraq Becoming a Quagmire_. Results as of 5pm my time, 94% yes, 6% no. Spin the “scientific” part all you like, 94% is some serious shit. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/44 "2003-08-19T22:04:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*Me, too. For one thing **Reeder** , drop the _Bushista_ and _Apologista_ terms. They trip you right out of the gate, IMO. To me, it says your mind is closed and debate is futile. \*\* To him, debate IS closed. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_Mexico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f6c823/32.png) [@Roger\_Mexico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_Mexico)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2003, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/45 "2003-08-19T22:06:01Z")
Anagram Genius gives this result for George Walker Bush: Blush, war geek ogre. But for George Herbert Walker Bush it reveals: HUGE BERSERK REBEL WARTHOG! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/46 "2003-08-20T00:37:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Well in other countries they arent asking for as many security measures and making as many restrictions to travellers as the US is… so Bush=US Govt. is responsible for a good PART of the bad situation of US carriers. > > Connection Flights that usually would pass thru the US will now go thru Panama and other countries due to the VISA requirments now enforced. A good number of tourists from other countries are having a hard time getting a VISA and many others dont even bother trying. That all adds up to less economic activity and Latin American businesses moving to more friendly areas. Actually, I’ll go along with you on that. The situation for foreign nationals arriving at Bush(!) Airport in Houston is appalling, with people often waiting more than four hours in line to get through immigration, without the opportunity to sit down, get a drink or use the bathroom. It’s becoming a national scandal, and it seems in part to be due to increased security and in part due to the recent reorganization of the INS. As it’s occurred on Bush’s watch, it’s his baby as far as I’m concerned. The other major point I’d agree with concerns the phenomenal national deficit that’s been run up in just a few years, which most people seem to agree is a Very Bad Thing, although I’ll admit that I’m a bit naive about just what the long-term ramifacations are. Perhaps another thread would be in order to discuss that. * * * As for the OP: So, **Reeder** , how’s your thread going, dude? Getting pretty much the answers you wanted, or what? Hello? Hello? Say, is this thing on? ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/47 "2003-08-20T01:15:09Z")
**Roger Mexico:** > [@](#): > > Anagram Genius gives this result for George Walker Bush: > > Blush, war geek ogre. > > But for George Herbert Walker Bush it reveals: > > HUGE BERSERK REBEL WARTHOG! Well, I can’t argue with that. Excellent riposte. Tears those economists to shreds, doesn’t it? **davidw:** > [@](#): > > No offense, Sam, but that’s just an estimate. We shouldn’t count our chicks until they hatch. There have been plenty of optimistic economic estimates over the past couple of years that haven’t been borne out. The current growth rate is still pretty anemic. So let me get this straight: in a thread asking if things are _getting better_, we’re not allowed to use professional economic forecasts? I guess I should have resorted to the anagram defense. ---
**Author:** ![davidw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c4cdca/32.png) [@davidw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidw)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/48 "2003-08-20T01:41:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sam Stone \* > \*\* > > So let me get this straight: in a thread asking if things are _getting better_, we’re not allowed to use professional economic forecasts? \*\* I’m sorry, but you must have misread the OP. Here’s the question: > [@](#): > > Convince me things are good. Show me the silver lining. Prove to me my government has us in mind and not big business and big contributors. Sounds like present tense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/49 "2003-08-20T02:14:07Z")
**Roger Mexico:** > [@](#): > > Anagram Genius gives this result for George Walker Bush: > > Blush, war geek ogre. > > But for George Herbert Walker Bush it reveals: > > HUGE BERSERK REBEL WARTHOG! Well, I can’t argue with that. Excellent riposte. Tears those economists to shreds, doesn’t it? **davidw:** > [@](#): > > No offense, Sam, but that’s just an estimate. We shouldn’t count our chicks until they hatch. There have been plenty of optimistic economic estimates over the past couple of years that haven’t been borne out. The current growth rate is still pretty anemic. So let me get this straight: in a thread asking if things are _getting better_, we’re not allowed to use professional economic forecasts? I guess I should have resorted to the anagram defense. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/50 "2003-08-20T02:23:44Z")
I have not seen one iota of proof things are getting better for our country as a whole. Yes things are getting better for those who are well off, but they were doing good to start with. But what about the rest of the country? The poor and almost poor make up much more of the population. Where is the help for them? Let’s talk about this $400 child tax refund for a minute. Many of the Bush supporters say the poor don’t deserve it because they don’t pay any taxes. They sure see taxes coming out of their paycheck every week. Granted they may get most of it back. But I’d bet most of the better off get taxes back too. As for those who say the government doesn’t owe anybody anything…I just point to the Constitution…“to promote the general welfare” I take that to mean that everyone’s general needs are to be taken care of. No, not make someone rich, but to make sure everyone’s basic needs are met. But that’s a pipe dream. ---
**Author:** ![Chicago\_Faucet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chicago_faucet/32/13910_2.png) [@Chicago\_Faucet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chicago_Faucet)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/51 "2003-08-20T13:12:54Z")
The government doesn’t owe anyone anything. At the very base, the government is there to enforce contracts and protect its citizens. There is a difference between promoting an environment and oweing someone something. It is up to the individual to be in pursuit of their own happiness and provide for their own welfare. The Constitution simply states that the government can’t prevent the individual from doing such things. Nowhere does the Constitution state “basic needs are taken care of.” That is something that you assumed, and added on your own. So, define basic needs. I need a car to get to work on time in the morning, unless I start walking at 3 am. I also need a house and clothes and food. But I don’t look to the government to provide those things. If I did, then we would all be driving Trabants, living in Projects, eating rice three meals a day, and wearing clothing manufactured by the lowest bidder. As far as taxes, the “wealthy” pay far more than their fair share, and got none back. They are accused of hiding in tax shelters and tying their assets up in less taxed investments like real estate and stocks. But, when you pay upwards to 50% of your income to taxes, without getting any back, wouldn’t you do the same? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2003, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118/52 "2003-08-20T13:53:32Z")
> [@](#): > > As for those who say the government doesn’t owe anybody anything…I just point to the Constitution…“to promote the general welfare” > > I take that to mean that everyone’s general needs are to be taken care of. No, not make someone rich, but to make sure everyone’s basic needs are met. > > But that’s a pipe dream. Well, you got the last part right! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-bushistas-tell-me-how-good-things-are/196118.md?page=2)