# For the first time ever, I feel offended **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740 "2004-10-05T22:03:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/21 "2004-10-06T01:10:59Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Alright I know I promised I wouldn’t post in gay threads anymore so I’ll try to be as least abrasive as possible. > > What’s wrong if a gay person WANTS to be straight? (for what ever reasons) I would think for THAT person it would be nice to know there is help out there. Because it’s a lie and a fraud. You might really, really want to learn how to fly by flapping your arms. That doesn’t give me an excuse to charge you for lessons and then push you off a cliff. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/22 "2004-10-06T01:17:31Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Alright I know I promised I wouldn’t post in gay threads anymore so I’ll try to be as least abrasive as possible. > > What’s wrong if a gay person WANTS to be straight? (for what ever reasons) I would think for THAT person it would be nice to know there is help out there. Heh, come on. You have to know that those ads aren’t for THAT person, or any gay person for that matter. They’re for people like you, who want to be reassured gays don’t _have_ to be gay, and that their sexuality really _is_ a choice. “Maybe they didn’t choose to be gay from the start, but they’re at least choosing to continue that lifestyle since there’s obviously proven help for that condition,” is what you’re supposed to think. ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/23 "2004-10-06T01:24:59Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Alright I know I promised I wouldn’t post in gay threads anymore so I’ll try to be as least abrasive as possible. > > What’s wrong if a gay person WANTS to be straight? (for what ever reasons) I would think for THAT person it would be nice to know there is help out there. Well, not to do a pile-on or whatever - but, are you serious? Help is also out there for heteros that want to be gay, right? Are we gonna see a billboard advertising that sentiment? What’s really strange is that you live in my town of Dallas. Don’t all the strip club billboards provide enough therapy? ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/24 "2004-10-06T01:34:37Z")
[QUOTE=Blonde] Well, not to do a pile-on or whatever - but, are you serious? Help is also out there for heteros that want to be gay, right? Are we gonna see a billboard advertising that sentiment?QUOTE] See above. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/25 "2004-10-06T01:39:52Z")
> [@caphis](#): > > [http://pfox.org/](http://pfox.org/) > > That billboard is up near where I live. Never have I ever before felt offended. > > That’s about all. I saw a bigoted bumpersticker on my way to run errands. **One Man|One Woman: Yes on 36** Another fucking bigoted ballot measure from the Oregon Citizen’s Alliance. They had a spokeswoman from this group of slimebags posing as Christians on the Daily Show and while she said that marriage needs to be protected, she couldn’t say from WHAT. HOW CAN THESE ASSHOLES CLAIM THEY ARE DEFENDING SOMETHING WITHOUT EVER HAVING TO EXLAIN THE RAMIFICATIONS?!? _sigh_ ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/26 "2004-10-06T01:40:02Z")
OK thanks for the responses folks. I’ll agree that gay is innate. Just like being left handed is innate. I just see no logical reason why a left handed person couldn’t learn to be right handed. I only ask because I have heard gay people claim they wish they could be straight is all. Granted most of them wish they could be straight due to all the bigotry towards gays; but, hey, none the less, they still claim they wish they could be straight. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/27 "2004-10-06T01:42:13Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > OK thanks for the responses folks. > > I’ll agree that gay is innate. Just like being left handed is innate. I just see no logical reason why a left handed person couldn’t learn to be right handed. > > I only ask because I have heard gay people claim they wish they could be straight is all. Granted most of them wish they could be straight due to all the bigotry towards gays; but, hey, none the less, they still claim they wish they could be straight. So, the answer is to conform and hide, begging for acceptance from a group that makes in clear in some quarters that it doesn’t like you? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/28 "2004-10-06T01:44:55Z")
This is just disgusting. The following box contains witnessing. It’s progay witnessing. But, I’ll put it in a box just in case anybody is offended. If you are gay, it is because the Lord made you so. Your homosexuality is not a sickness. It is not a sin. If He really had such a problem with gay people, don’t you think he’d just stop making them? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/29 "2004-10-06T01:45:29Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > OK thanks for the responses folks. > > I’ll agree that gay is innate. Just like being left handed is innate. I just see no logical reason why a left handed person couldn’t learn to be right handed. They used to try to do that, too. It didn’t work, either. Some stuff is just hard-wired into your brain, and can’t be changed. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/30 "2004-10-06T01:48:19Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > Alright I know I promised I wouldn’t post in gay threads anymore so I’ll try to be as least abrasive as possible. > > What’s wrong if a gay person WANTS to be straight? (for what ever reasons) I would think for THAT person it would be nice to know there is help out there. If THAT person wants to “be straight,” then I (and apparently I’m in the minority) say more power to him. Of course, he’s fooling himself and is bound for disappointment, because unless he’s bisexual and not really “ex-gay,” he’s just going to be miserable. But that’s his right. I had the chance to be lonely, miserable, depressed, and hating myself for 10 years, so why shouldn’t everyone else have the same right? The problem is when people try to _force_ the same idea on everyone else. They say that these people are “proof” that you _can_ change from gay to straight, so that everyone _should_ change from gay to straight. And if you’re gay and happy with it, then you should just stop complaining, because you made your bed so now you’ve got lie in it. You can’t claim equal rights or protected status on the same level as race or sex, because you could change if you tried. > [@Manduck](#): > > Maybe I shouldn’t say this, but that guy on the billboard really looks gay. In that shirt? Please. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/31 "2004-10-06T01:56:02Z")
**iampunha** : You don’t get shotgun unless you help with the bulletin board, mister… 😉 Not sure if this has been said, I’ll take a crack at it. I think there are gay people out there who want to be straight. They’ve been hardwired into believing that their sexual orientation is sinful and wrong, and they want to change themselves. The groups that are represented on the billboard and bumper stickers will undoubtedly help with that. They may even succeed with the “conversion”. But **this doesn’t make it right**. Homosexuality is not a sin, not a choice, not a wicked and evil thing. It’s part of who a person is, just like their hair colour, eye colour, and whether or not they eat yogurt with cornflakes, and it’s just as valid as heterosexuality. ---
**Author:** ![norinew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb9ed0/32.png) [@norinew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/norinew)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/32 "2004-10-06T02:03:50Z")
I loved this part of the accompanying article: > [@](#): > > At a time when homosexual activists are seeking special rights, such as “gay marriage,” hate crime laws, adopting children and promoting homosexuality in schools, In the first place, what “special rights” are they talking about?? AFAICT, gays don’t want “special” rights, they want _equal_ rights. Aren’t these two distinctively different things? And what about this “promoting homosexuality in schools”? Really? Are they all _that_ desperate for new toasters that they’re trying to pedal the lifestyle to little kids? :rolleyes: As far as **SHAKES** is concerned, I don’t agree with him, but I _do_ understand what he’s trying to say (or at least I think I do), so let me give it a shot. **SHAKES** , a left-handed person can learn to write and do other tasks with their right hand. They may even get pretty good at it. But they will _never be right-handed_. They will always be a left-handed person who knows how to do stuff with their left hand. A lesbian could, if determined, marry a man, clean the house, cook the dinner, have kids and drive them to soccer practice. But she will _never be a heterosexual_; she will be a lesbian who is living a straight lifestyle. Sex drive is innate. Lots of people deny theirs in various ways. Monks and nuns often never engage in sex, in spite of the fact that they are hard-wired to want to. But that doesn’t mean they are non-sexual beings. They are sexual beings living a non-sexual lifestyle. Does that make sense to you? ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/33 "2004-10-06T02:13:30Z")
> [@caphis](#): > > [http://pfox.org/](http://pfox.org/) > > Never have I ever before felt offended. Ahh, virginity. Enjoy the novelty while it lasts, kid. After a while, it gets old. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/34 "2004-10-06T02:22:13Z")
**caphis** , just wanted to say that if you _do_ decide to put up an opposing billboard, let us know where we should send donations to help the cause. I’d love to be in on it, even if it’s just a small show of support. Glad to know this is important enough to lots of folks to fight for their beliefs. Go get 'em! (And as an aside, in East Texas near Tyler, there is a town that has many signs lamenting all the babies “murdered” due to abortion. I always wanted to put up one that countered with prayers for all the children who were NOT, but who’d been forgotten once they’d been born and left to physically, mentally and/or sexually abusive people. Wish I’d have pursued that like you might.) ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/35 "2004-10-06T02:27:28Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > I’ll agree that gay is innate. Just like being left handed is innate. I just see no logical reason why a left handed person couldn’t learn to be right handed. I don’t mean to change the subject, because this is an important issue and you’re being very polite and reasonable. I am able to write with either hand. Handwriting from my right hand is … a test. Sometimes the letters are written backward (this has been the case since I was a child), and it’s conscious effort to write properly with my right hand. Even then, your average 4-year-old could produce something just as good and maybe in less time. I’m sure there are folks 20 years younger than I am who could produce superior right-handed penmanship. But, when it comes down to it … yes, I _can_ write right-handed. It’s just cumbersome and ugly and slow and sometimes I just give up in frustration because what I can write in a minute with my right hand I can write in … 10 seconds? with my left hand. I think it’s something like that with trying to be something you aren’t when it comes to sex. A friend of mine is functionally gay, for example. He derives physical pleasure from having sex with either gender, but emotionally a woman is … a person. A man is a life partner. So while he could struggle along with only the physical (and hey, only the physical ain’t all that bad) from a woman, he’d be writing much better, so to speak, with a man. > [@](#): > > I only ask because I have heard gay people claim they wish they could be straight is all. Granted most of them wish they could be straight due to all the bigotry towards gays; but, hey, none the less, they still claim they wish they could be straight. Back when I was still trying to figure out what in the blessed bloody blue hell I was, better believe there were more than a few times when I said to myself “Can’t I just be straight and put all this shit behind me?” I’ve posted many times on here about my father the monk. My mother’s also heavily religious. I didn’t look forward, back when I was questioning, to talking to them about this at **all**. So many of us, Og bless, have parents who will _say_ “We’ll love you no matter what.” Sometimes there ends up being a caveat to that and it isn’t spoken. In my case there was no such caveat. They accepted my being bisexual, though of course they were confused and worried at first (more about AIDS and gaybashing than anything else) and my parents still can’t fathom being attracted to a man AND a woman just as I have to strain REALLY hard to see how a person can’t be attracted, however insignificantly, to someone of the opposite sex. I’m fortunate in that my parents have accepted my bisexuality completely. Many people’s parents have no plans to come to terms with their children’s life conditions, however they view them. I don’t know how that feels because my fears about my parents’ possible reactions were so very far removed from what they actually were. The lack of support, love, comfort - you name it - that rejected GLBTQU (gay lesbian bisexual transgender questioning unsure - did I miss an?) people sometimes get as a result of coming out can be absolutely devastating, and sure - some of them do end up wishing they were straight. We have at least one member on this board who could go into a very painful account of how hard she tried to be straight. Wishing you’re something you aren’t, though, doesn’t make that “aren’t” objectively of more value than the “are,” though the subjective value can be tempting in ways I’m glad I never experienced. So, to wrap up this mega-hijack … yeah, there were times when I wished I was straight. I think chances are good that my schoolmate Matt (I don’t know that I qualified as a friend, especially given how ridiculously homophobic I was in HS) had times like that as well, especially when he was questioning and after he came out to his parents, they disowned him and he ended up a homeless prostitute. What that desire means, from my perspective, is an end to the Hell the experience can be. When I wanted to come to the conclusion that I was straight, it was to save myself grief, not because there was then something I perceived to be objectively superior about being het. It’s a difficult distinction to see, I know, and I might not be making it adequately (or I might be wrong. I have a dog in this fight, after all). ---
**Author:** ![Brandus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@Brandus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brandus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/36 "2004-10-06T02:30:22Z")
I’m generally an upstanding citizen, but I would seriously consider a criminal act of arson if I saw that billboard in my town. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/37 "2004-10-06T02:31:02Z")
> [@iampunha](#): > > I’m sure there are folks 20 years younger than I am who could produce superior right-handed penmanship. This won’t make any sense unless you know I’m 23. There are many many 3-year-olds who could produce writing superior to my right-hand writing. (I had to be extra specially careful how I phrased that because of all you perverts.) ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/38 "2004-10-06T02:37:49Z")
> [@SHAKES](#): > > OK thanks for the responses folks. > > I’ll agree that gay is innate. Just like being left handed is innate. I just see no logical reason why a left handed person couldn’t learn to be right handed. My grandma went through having her left hand tied behind her back in early elementary school. I’m pretty sure she favors her left hand (I’ll have to watch her the next time I visit her) though she’s used the words “fairly ambidextrous” on a couple of occasions. She’s still a lefty. I can’t do squat with my left hand except handle a fork, and I can’t imagine being forced to try to write with it. And I’ll believe the ex-gay people once somebody finds a way to turn me, totally hetero, into a lesbian. I’d LOVE to see a billboard advertising that…brilliant idea, that one. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/39 "2004-10-06T02:39:47Z")
> [@caphis](#): > > Heh… you rock. Right now, we’re all waiting to hear back from the advertising agency that owns the billboard. Then we’ll go from there. If they’re unwilling to listen to reason, might I recommend [this little tome?](http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=mHu16BjzyO&isbn=0072434244&TXT=Y&itm=1) It has some, um, “creative solutions,” shall we say, for offensive billboards. There’s also [this, uh “reference book”](http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=mHu16BjzyO&isbn=0965046982&itm=15) which has some handy hints in it. Finally, if all that fails to get the offending billboard taken care of, then [this series of books](http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?ATH=hayduke&userid=mHu16BjzyO) should help you resolve the problem in a satisfying, if not satisfactory, manner. 😃 Slightly off-topic, but on the way home tonight I got to thinking about those billboards which say > [@](#): > > Don’t Make Me Come Down There – God And I thought it’d be pretty cool to rent the space on the billboard nearest them and put up a sign which reads > [@](#): > > Remember what happened the last time you came down here? – Mankind Then a month or so later change that to > [@](#): > > What’s the matter? You chicken? And just keep taunting God until you get struck by lightning or something. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeSpirit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snakespirit/32/7271_2.png) [@SnakeSpirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeSpirit)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2004, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/40 "2004-10-06T02:43:51Z")
I had a couple of ex-gay acquaintences. They are now re-gay, and I’m just happy. (They were much nicer people as gay, and now they’re nice again!) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740.md?page=3)