# For the first time ever, I feel offended **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2004, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740 "2004-10-05T22:03:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/61 "2004-10-07T01:24:37Z")
Isn’t this billboard Free Speech? I mean, I see eyesores on the side of the road all the time, I don’t see how this is different. Some billboard isn’t explicitly infringing on a gay person’s gay-ness…Frankly, if I drove past a billboard that says, “Incubus, you’re not a white guy, you’re a black man in denial!” I’d probably laugh it up all the way home. 😛 By all means try to get another sign set up that says something contrary- in the same way I have absolutely no problem with that. But to censor the message just deprives you the opportunity to use it as an example to fight ignorance. People are people. I don’t think some sign in the road is going to change their mind. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/62 "2004-10-07T01:27:33Z")
**Incubus** , I think ome people don’t think the notion of turning a gay person into a straight person is quite as ridiculous as a white person being a black person in denial–some people are much more likely to take the former seriously than the latter. Many more people might find it offensive, is all. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/63 "2004-10-07T01:28:59Z")
> [@whiterabbit](#): > > I always want to ask these people, with people like you around, who would be STUPID enough to choose to be gay, assuming such a thing were possible? I sure as hell wouldn’t. The few times I have attempted to respond to the idea that a person chooses to be gay even amidst what can be (and is far more often than I like to think about) rampant homophobia, I got some of the most tortured logic I’d ever read consisting of the guy saying these folks just wanted to be different, reveled in their martyrdom and the level of bullshit hurled in their general direction and generally just wanted to be pissants. I was not able to come up with a suitably respectful response to that, so, if memory serves, I noted my fundamental disagreement with it all and chalked another one up to “will believe anything that makes his worldview easier to maintain in the face of all reason and fact.” ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/64 "2004-10-07T01:31:50Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > **Incubus** , I think ome people don’t think the notion of turning a gay person into a straight person is quite as ridiculous as a white person being a black person in denial–some people are much more likely to take the former seriously than the latter. > > Many more people might find it offensive, is all. Really? I thought it was a half-decent analogy. After all, we are talking about a characteristic that is ‘hard-wired’ in us, as some other posters have put it. Don’t misjudge me in my criticism, I agree that someone is hetero or they are gay, its not a ‘choice’ they can make. But in that sense, its as inherent as race. Thus, I can’t be black because I’m white, but this billboard is like telling me “I’m not really white, I’m just in denial about being black” Of course the first thing that came to mind was the Family Guy take on british drive-by debates- driving up to the sign, shouting, "I disagree! :mad: " and speeding off. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/65 "2004-10-07T01:32:38Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > **Incubus** , I think ome people don’t think the notion of turning a gay person into a straight person is quite as ridiculous as a white person being a black person in denial–some people are much more likely to take the former seriously than the latter. > > Many more people might find it offensive, is all. In addition to the potential offense, we still have entirely too many people operating under the delusion that, for example, **matt** and I got together some time ago and decided to be attracted to boys … for the novelty of it, I don’t know. It sure as shit was not the benefits package. Being black, meanwhile, is no longer something one can attack as being God’s mark or indication of subhuman intellect or any number of things that used to be claimed in the past to support the notion that it was objectively unwise to be black. The same is not yet true of your friendly neighborhood Gay-man. ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/66 "2004-10-07T01:36:01Z")
You’re right, I suppose, that it’s their method of free speech. In a similar vein, a huge billboard with nothing but “[KKK.COM](http://KKK.COM)” on it would also be free speech, and graphically non-offensive, wouldn’t you agree? ---
**Author:** ![Incubus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c68b51/32.png) [@Incubus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incubus)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/67 "2004-10-07T01:41:35Z")
> [@caphis](#): > > You’re right, I suppose, that it’s their method of free speech. > > In a similar vein, a huge billboard with nothing but “[KKK.COM](http://KKK.COM)” on it would also be free speech, and graphically non-offensive, wouldn’t you agree? Certainly. Heck, if it wasn’t for Chick tracts, for example, the BBQ pit would be pretty quiet! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/68 "2004-10-07T01:54:01Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Really? I thought it was a half-decent analogy. After all, we are talking about a characteristic that is ‘hard-wired’ in us, as some other posters have put it. Don’t misjudge me in my criticism, I agree that someone is hetero or they are gay, its not a ‘choice’ they can make. But in that sense, its as inherent as race. Thus, I can’t be black because I’m white, but this billboard is like telling me “I’m not really white, I’m just in denial about being black” Yeah, but there aren’t a whole lot of white people out there who are depressed to the point of suicide over the fact they aren’t black. There aren’t white people out there who are so terrified of admitting that they’re white that they’d do anything, no matter how dangerous or self-destructive, to convince themselves that they’re really black. And there aren’t organizations out there that are promising to turn white people into black people despite the overwhelming medical, psychological, and statistical evidence that such transformations are completely impossible, to say nothing of totally unnecessary. I view this billboard much the same way I’d view a billboard that promoted anorexia as a legitimate alternative to dieting. It’s a sick, dangerous, and baseless idea. It’s an idea that destroys lives. It’s an idea that kills. That said, they do have the right to express their sick, fucked-up ideology in public, same as everyone else. The proper response to it isn’t censorship or vandalism, the proper response is truth, condemnation, and ridicule. In other words, the best way to counter free speech is with more free speech. **caphis** , if y’all go with the counter-billboard idea, let us know. I’d love to kick in a little cash for something like that. ---
**Author:** ![caphis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19adc/32.png) [@caphis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caphis)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/69 "2004-10-07T02:01:04Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > **caphis** , if y’all go with the counter-billboard idea, let us know. I’d love to kick in a little cash for something like that. As much as everyone around here loves the idea, the funding for such a venture would, indeed, be the primary obstacle. I, for one, have no idea how much one of those things costs, or the shortest amount of time you could rent one would be for. Anyone have an idea? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/70 "2004-10-07T02:06:52Z")
> [@caphis](#): > > As much as everyone around here loves the idea, the funding for such a venture would, indeed, be the primary obstacle. I, for one, have no idea how much one of those things costs, or the shortest amount of time you could rent one would be for. > > Anyone have an idea? One month, judging from the billboards around here, looks to be the minimum amount of time one can rent space. As to the cost, I’ve no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/71 "2004-10-07T02:14:48Z")
> [@Incubus](#): > > Really? I thought it was a half-decent analogy. After all, we are talking about a characteristic that is ‘hard-wired’ in us, as some other posters have put it. Don’t misjudge me in my criticism, I agree that someone is hetero or they are gay, its not a ‘choice’ they can make. But in that sense, its as inherent as race. Thus, I can’t be black because I’m white, but this billboard is like telling me “I’m not really white, I’m just in denial about being black” > > Of course the first thing that came to mind was the Family Guy take on british drive-by debates- driving up to the sign, shouting, "I disagree! :mad: " and speeding off. 😛 Family Guy! 😃 OK, serious answer: It _is_ a decent analogy, don’t get me wrong. My point is that some people might not see it as so–they might take it at face value, and not see the inherent silliness in the argument. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/72 "2004-10-07T02:32:04Z")
> [@caphis](#): > > As much as everyone around here loves the idea, the funding for such a venture would, indeed, be the primary obstacle. I, for one, have no idea how much one of those things costs, or the shortest amount of time you could rent one would be for. > > Anyone have an idea? Find the nearest local chapter of a gay rights organization, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/73 "2004-10-07T02:49:57Z")
We certainly have the talent on this board. Think of it- We open on a despairing youngman with an issue of Leather Daddy in one hand and an Exodus pamphlet in the other. He’s trying to decide between a painful ‘cure’ or a life he’s told will be empty and without love. Uncle Rob shows up and explains that this is a false dilemma. Using various historical examples and Biblical cites, Rob convinces the young man that it’s okay to be gay. For an ending “Thank you Rob, for showing me the light! And thank you, Jesus, for loving me just the way I am! I’m going to go spread the Word to Tommy, and then make out with him!” I’m serious. I think if it was done properly, avoiding parody or satire, it could work. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/74 "2004-10-07T03:01:40Z")
> [@iampunha](#): > > I was not able to come up with a suitably respectful response to that, so, if memory serves, I noted my fundamental disagreement with it all and chalked another one up to “will believe anything that makes his worldview easier to maintain in the face of all reason and fact.” That’s pretty much what I’ve chalked it up to as well. I know the exact moment I knew that I liked boys, and it was not some sort of decision. It was more like a bus hit me or something. (He was GORGEOUS! And nice!) So I’m not going to be stupid enough to assume anybody else deliberately picked a gender to lust after. Of course, even if they DID, I wouldn’t give a rat’s ass about it. I think the phrase “none of my damn business” comes into play about here. ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/75 "2004-10-07T03:03:11Z")
> [@whiterabbit](#): > > (He was GORGEOUS! And nice!) Cite? 😉 Seriously, rock on. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/76 "2004-10-07T03:18:25Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > We certainly have the talent on this board. Think of it- We open on a despairing youngman with an issue of Leather Daddy in one hand and an Exodus pamphlet in the other. He’s trying to decide between a painful ‘cure’ or a life he’s told will be empty and without love. Uncle Rob shows up and explains that this is a false dilemma. Using various historical examples and Biblical cites, Rob convinces the young man that it’s okay to be gay. For an ending “Thank you Rob, for showing me the light! And thank you, Jesus, for loving me just the way I am! I’m going to go spread the Word to Tommy, and then make out with him!” > > I’m serious. I think if it was done properly, avoiding parody or satire, it could work. Actually, if I’m not mistaken, someone did something similiar for _Teemings_ a few years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/77 "2004-10-07T03:25:38Z")
[Someone at the Jedi Council boards offered up this site in a discussion on homosexuality](http://www.anythingbutstraight.com/). Pretty interesting expose of the ex-gay ministries. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/78 "2004-10-07T04:03:24Z")
> [@Kythereia](#): > > Cite? 😉 > > Seriously, rock on. Unfortunately, no cite – it was seventeen years ago. I bet he’s still gorgeous, though. [singing]Memories…[/singing] ---
**Author:** ![manx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@manx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manx)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/79 "2004-10-07T05:41:06Z")
I think I’d drive off the road if I saw anything like than up in Auckland! And help a foreigner out - what is Proposition 36? ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2004, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740/80 "2004-10-07T05:47:57Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Actually, if I’m not mistaken, someone did something similiar for _Teemings_ a few years ago. [Link](http://www.teemings.com/extras/jackchick/spoofe01.html). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-first-time-ever-i-feel-offended/267740.md?page=5)