# For the love all that's holy, being stupid is NOT an accident **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 23, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118 "2013-05-23T14:03:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/1 "2013-05-23T14:03:31Z")
This [boy](http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefootball/story/high-school-player-tony-conley-dies-freak-accident-strangled-by-dog-lead-052213) died tragically. But it wasn’t an accident. He didn’t slip and fall through the collar. He didn’t slip and fall off the side. > [@](#): > > A Kentucky high school football player known as a “jokester” was strangled by a dog lead he put around his neck while playing with friends at the start of summer vacation, just hours after finishing his freshman year. > > Tony Conley, 16, died near his home in Estill County in eastern Kentucky on Friday when he apparently jumped off an outdoor deck staircase and the dog lead tightened around his neck, county Coroner Tony Murphy said Monday. Where is the accident? I see stupidity, but being stupid != accident. Why aren’t they calling it a senseless suicide? He **jumped**. He didn’t slip, get nudged, or anything else. Are we calling it an accident so his parents won’t have to think about how their son is dead because they couldn’t be bothered explaining to him that you don’t jump from structures with things tied around your neck? I was 4 years old when I learned that dog collars + porches + fall= dead puppy :(. So yeah, I agree tragic, senseless, but I just cannot grasp the use of the word accident. Murder Suspect: Yeah, I pointed the gun at her. Yeah, I pulled the trigger. But it was an accident. I didn’t mean for the bullet to actually kill her! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/2 "2013-05-23T14:14:46Z")
ac·ci·dent noun \ˈak-sə-dənt, -ˌdent; ˈaks-dənt\ 1 a: an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance 2 a: an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/3 "2013-05-23T14:16:34Z")
So you never did anything stupid? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/4 "2013-05-23T14:30:37Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > So you never did anything stupid? :rolleyes: nothing as stupid as jumping off of a deck with a choke chain around my neck. So piss off with this asinine argument. ---
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/5 "2013-05-23T14:32:00Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > ac·ci·dent noun \ˈak-sə-dənt, -ˌdent; ˈaks-dənt\ > > 1 a: an unforeseen and unplanned event or circumstance > > 2 a: an unfortunate event resulting especially from carelessness or ignorance So you think he was either careless or ignorant of the results of his actions? “I wonder what would happen if I put a gun with a bullet in my mouth, turned off the safety, and pulled the trigger?” I think it was tragic, I think it was shocking, but I cannot see how it wasn’t intentional, not careless, and a 16 year old not knowing hanging kills people? I don’t buy it. Or are you saying any unfortunate event is an accident? “Wow, did you see that horrible accident? Two planes hit the world trade center!” I don’t buy that either. I see no definition of accident that fits the tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Zyanthia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Zyanthia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zyanthia)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/6 "2013-05-23T14:33:18Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > So you never did anything stupid? I did a lot of stupid things growing up. But guess what? We never called them accidents. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/7 "2013-05-23T14:36:19Z")
> [@Zyanthia](#): > > So you think he was either careless or ignorant of the results of his actions? > > “I wonder what would happen if I put a gun with a bullet in my mouth, turned off the safety, and pulled the trigger?” > > I think it was tragic, I think it was shocking, but I cannot see how it wasn’t intentional, not careless, and a 16 year old not knowing hanging kills people? I don’t buy it. > > Or are you saying any unfortunate event is an accident? “Wow, did you see that horrible accident? Two planes hit the world trade center!” > > I don’t buy that either. I see no definition of accident that fits the tragedy. > [@](#): > > Conley was “just being a kid, goofing off” when he then decided to jump off the stairs leading up to the deck, he said. > > “Looks like he maybe just started to flat foot and jump over the rail back down to the ground,” Murphy said. “Somehow the cable got hung on the inside of the post on the top, which caused it to cinch down tight on his neck.” > > An autopsy showed that he died of strangulation, he said. > > Murphy said that investigators found nothing to indicate the death was due to a “choking game,” which involves strangling oneself or another person to achieve a high. > > “Nothing has really led us that way,” he said. If he did it to kill himself it wasn’t an accident. There is no indication he was trying to kill himself. Therefore it is an accident. And as a corollary this leads to the conclusion that you are a fucking idiot for making an issue out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/8 "2013-05-23T14:38:05Z")
> [@Zyanthia](#): > > I did a lot of stupid things growing up. But guess what? We never called them accidents. So its only an accident when there are no contributing factors. And no human error. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/9 "2013-05-23T14:39:33Z")
> [@Zyanthia](#): > > So you think he was either careless or ignorant of the results of his actions? Do you think he intended to kill himself? > [@](#): > > I see no definition of accident that fits the tragedy. The one quoted above seems to work for me. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/10 "2013-05-23T14:43:01Z")
> [@Zyanthia](#): > > So you think he was either careless or ignorant of the results of his actions? > > “I wonder what would happen if I put a gun with a bullet in my mouth, turned off the safety, and pulled the trigger?” > > I think it was tragic, I think it was shocking, but I cannot see how it wasn’t intentional, not careless, and a 16 year old not knowing hanging kills people? I don’t buy it. > > Or are you saying any unfortunate event is an accident? “Wow, did you see that horrible accident? Two planes hit the world trade center!” > > I don’t buy that either. I see no definition of accident that fits the tragedy. Sorry for the multi-posts and quoting you again. Should have gathered my thoughts better. I find it interesting that you link to an article, quote a little of it then ignore the part that specifically says that he wasn’t attempting to hang himself, the cable got hung up on post and he accidentally got strangled. He acted with carelessness and ignorance of the possibilities of his actions. He died by accident. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/11 "2013-05-23T14:43:40Z")
So senseless, given the chance surely he would go forth with a new leash on life. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/12 "2013-05-23T14:45:39Z")
I don’t see why we can’t agree the kid was stupid without rewriting the English language. Also none of your analogies make sense. Unless you know more about this case than is in the article, it doesn’t look like he knew the other end of the leash was going to become attached to anything so his action was reckless but not guaranteed from the outset to kill him. Nevertheless, I’m sorry to hear about your puppy. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/13 "2013-05-23T14:48:55Z")
The way I interpreted the story was this. The dude put a leash around his neck. Nothing particularly dangerous about that. Dude jumped of a balcony. Maybe break a leg or something. But not deadly. Combination of one and two. Leash CATCHES on something and hanging ensues. Shit happens when you aren’t careful/paranoid all the time. It was a stupid accident (if I read the article right). But IMO it was two minor stupid things that a fair number of people might not foresee to be deadly in combination. And for that matter, if I read the article right, I bet things like this happen about as often as someone getting struck and killed by a meteorite. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/14 "2013-05-23T14:49:58Z")
His stupidity (or foolishness) contributed to or caused the accident. How’s that? ETA: **lieu** , that’s a punishable offense ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/15 "2013-05-23T14:57:41Z")
I see what the OP is saying but I think she’s defining the word accident too narrowly. I agree its main meaning is a random unfortunate occurrence and in that sense Conley’s death was not an accident. But an accident can also be an act of recklessness or negligence with unintended consequences and that meaning would cover what Conley did. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/16 "2013-05-23T14:58:10Z")
[Isadora Duncan] _“Oh my!”_ [/ID] ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/17 "2013-05-23T15:01:53Z")
It was a stupid accident. There. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/18 "2013-05-23T15:16:30Z")
> [@Zyanthia](#): > > I did a lot of stupid things growing up. But guess what? We never called them accidents. So none of those stupid actions ever had unexpected outcomes? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/19 "2013-05-23T15:27:37Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > :rolleyes: > > nothing as stupid as jumping off of a deck with a choke chain around my neck. So piss off with this asinine argument. Um, this seems a little overly heated. Did I inadvertantly piss you off in another thread somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118/20 "2013-05-23T15:55:35Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Um, this seems a little overly heated. Did I inadvertantly piss you off in another thread somewhere? Did jz78817 answer for the OP or did I miss something? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-love-all-thats-holy-being-stupid-is-not-an-accident/659118.md?page=2)