# For The Religious: What about other gods? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 27, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442 "2014-02-27T19:40:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/61 "2014-02-28T16:24:14Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > As a Jew, I don’t especially care. ( **Amateur Barbarian** was right to an extent.) The Talmud makes it clear that all righteous people have a place in whatever reward G-d has planned. I have a friend who worships the Norse pantheon. Is he a good person who is kind to the stranger, clothes the naked, feeds the hungry etc and treats others as he would have them treat him? Yes, he is. So, it doesn’t matter which deity he worships. > > One of the only bits of glurge I like has Abraham taking a stranger in to his tent and feeding him. Abraham then commands the man to pray to G-d. The man refuses, explaining that he has his own deity. Abraham becomes angry and throws the man out. Later, G-d appears to Abraham and says “I commanded you to feed the hungry. I didn’t say feed them only if they believe in me. Go find that man and apologize.” So Abraham does. So would that narrative be from the Talmud? BTW, I think it’s deeply meaningful, although I don’t believe in any revealed deity. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/62 "2014-02-28T16:38:12Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Which brings forth another point: how many religions feel a need to establish not just superiority but exclusivity, at any price? Do any religions practice proselyting to the level of jihad except for Christianity and its young cousin Islam? Or are most more like Judaism, tolerant of different beliefs that gain the same (humanist) end? Hindu thought holds that all religions are reflections of the same basic truths, and that different deities (including the various Hindu deities) are facets of the same being. So everyone who believes in a higher power is a Hindu, according to Hindu teaching. That’s either wonderfully inclusive or kind of passive-aggressive, depending on how you look at it. > [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > The _Bhagavad Gita_ was written by Hindu polytheists. Hinduism is both polytheistic and monotheistic. All the devas are merely avatars of _Brahman_, the supreme/ultimate/whatever. So there’s nothing really inconsistent with believing Hindus and Christians worship the same god. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/63 "2014-02-28T16:45:31Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > That’s either wonderfully inclusive or kind of passive-aggressive, depending on how you look at it. No reason it can’t be both. 😃 As a religious nontheist humanist, I personally hold that all deities are aspects of a single human drive to self-actualization and striving for betterment. Which I freely admit is _extremely_ passive-aggressive. . ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/64 "2014-02-28T17:05:59Z")
Latro: > [@](#): > > Just to make sure I’m getting you; You both believe in the actual existence of other (lesser) gods than Yahweh. Depends on your definition of “god”. Let’s, for example, consider the sun. The Egyptians worshipped the sun in the form of “Ra,” and there’s no question that the sun has power - it gives light and heat. I certainly believe the sun exists. I do not believe, though, that it has any power that is independent of the one, true deity. Or consider the Pharaohs of Egypt, who were “deified” after their deaths. I believe that they existed, and that they wielded power in various ways when they were alive, but I do not believe that they are to be prayed to or worshipped. Bottom line: I do not believe there is any entity in existence that the one, true deity does not have ultimate power over. Even human beings, to whom I believe the one, true deity allows free will, could have that overridden if the one, true deity desired to. I do not believe that there are beings of lesser power who exist and act independently of the one, true deity. Does that answer your question? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/65 "2014-02-28T17:09:27Z")
One of my favorite just so myths is Bila, the Australian aborigine sun goddess. She cooked and ate human beings in her solar flames. She was chased away, but then it got dark and cold, so she was hunted down, captured, and chained to the earth so we could enjoy her light. An unruly emanation of Yahweh? I’ve seen people describe all solar gods as incarnations of Satan. You know, the morning star, the shining one. I knew one interesting fellow who believed the Greek pantheon were angels, since they were described as being so beautiful. I wondered about that, since the angels in the Bible are sometimes described as hideous Lovecraftian abominations, but whatevs. > [@AHunter3](#): > > Most of them are like characters in a theatrical pageant. They have genders, they have faces, they go through moods, they hold opinions and have foibles and quirks, they seem to occupy specific space at specific time and can be said to be elsewhere or not yet observant or otherwise not-present at other specific space-time locations, they have hands and feet and eyes and tongues even if they also may have horns or eight arms or a third eye. They are essentially people even if they can also shoot lighting bolts or vaporize mountains by uttering a phrase or live forever. None of that has anything to do with what I mean when I use the word ‘god’, so for someone to day “what about THEM?” So Jesus wasn’t God then. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/66 "2014-02-28T17:20:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Your insecurities are not my problem. Personally, I think preemptive strikes like this do more to harm conversation than anything you imagine I might say. You just keep those slaps to a minimum, please. Czarcasm, I love you, baby. But your attempts to exert control over this thread have led you to be fully one-third of the posts in it. You may start threads, sure, but too much constraint has led to confusion. Threads, like babies, tend to go their own way. You should maybe step back a bit and realize that. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/67 "2014-02-28T18:23:19Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Latro: > > Depends on your definition of “god”. Let’s, for example, consider the sun. The Egyptians worshipped the sun in the form of “Ra,” and there’s no question that the sun has power - it gives light and heat. I certainly believe the sun exists. I do not believe, though, that it has any power that is independent of the one, true deity. Or consider the Pharaohs of Egypt, who were “deified” after their deaths. I believe that they existed, and that they wielded power in various ways when they were alive, but I do not believe that they are to be prayed to or worshipped. > > Bottom line: I do not believe there is any entity in existence that the one, true deity does not have ultimate power over. Even human beings, to whom I believe the one, true deity allows free will, could have that overridden if the one, true deity desired to. I do not believe that there are beings of lesser power who exist and act independently of the one, true deity. > > Does that answer your question? No, I’m afraid it doesn’t. Your examples only cover a very small subset of what people call “Gods”. What about all the others; Toth, Artemis, Loki etc etc etc etc etc? Are they real, but only hold power as far as Yahweh allows them? ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/68 "2014-02-28T18:23:39Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > what exactly are angels if not demigods? They have power no mortal has, they don’t age, they can defy the one supreme being so they have their own will. In mythology, angels are not defined as gods/demigods at all. They are servants of the gods. And there’s considerable debate about [whether or not angels have free will.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=201072) Since all gods are imaginary, and imagination creates reality, each god possesses power proportional to the number of people who imagine that their personal god is real. Therefore, calling upon Archangel Michael can be extremely helpful, since “Mike” (as I call him) is accepted as a genuine divine entity by Catholics and New Agers alike. [Ophiuchus?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiuchus_%28astrology%29) Not so much. But even Ra/Zeus/Loki retain some staying power due to the great number of historians who study them, as well as the neo-pagans who worship them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/69 "2014-02-28T18:33:07Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Since all gods are imaginary, and imagination creates reality, each god possesses power proportional to the number of people who imagine that their personal god is real. I’ve heard this belief before from many people, and wasn’t this an aspect of Gaiman’s _American Gods_? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/70 "2014-02-28T18:35:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I’ve heard this belief before from many people, and wasn’t this an aspect of Gaiman’s _American Gods_? And many other fictional works. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/71 "2014-02-28T19:00:48Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And many other fictional works. Glen Cook, Pterry Pratchett, Steve Erikson, and Rick Riordan (hey, my kid’s 13) come immediately to mind. I’ve always found the idea compelling from a mythological perspective: it’s a way to establish deities as extant beings that are nevertheless wholly (or mostly, or partially) human constructs. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/72 "2014-02-28T19:03:25Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Glen Cook, Pterry Pratchett, Steve Erikson, and Rick Riordan (hey, my kid’s 13) come immediately to mind. I’ve always found the idea compelling from a mythological perspective: it’s a way to establish deities as extant beings that are nevertheless wholly (or mostly, or partially) human constructs. True dat, but sci-fi writers and others probably acquired the idea from certain branches of classical philosophy – [solipsism](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism_syndrome), most likely. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/73 "2014-02-28T19:52:01Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Glen Cook, Pterry Pratchett, Steve Erikson, and Rick Riordan (hey, my kid’s 13) come immediately to mind. I’ve always found the idea compelling from a mythological perspective: it’s a way to establish deities as extant beings that are nevertheless wholly (or mostly, or partially) human constructs. I recall an old short story where it turned out that one of the most powerful beings in the spirit world was…Uncle Sam. Not many people believe in Zeus or Odin any more, but who doesn’t believe in Uncle Sam? For a loose enough definition of “believe”, at least; given that Uncle Sam is identified with the US government that’s a lot of believers… ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/74 "2014-02-28T20:05:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So you fall into the “They’re all pretty much aspects of the same god” camp? Yes, aspects or confused perceptions. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/75 "2014-02-28T20:16:02Z")
**Der Trihs** –Fredric Brown, “The New One.” What do I win? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/76 "2014-02-28T20:22:36Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > **Der Trihs** –Fredric Brown, “The New One.” What do I win? 🙂 My thanks, for telling me; I couldn’t recall that. Although if pressed that’s the author I would have guessed at, Brown was a great short story author. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/77 "2014-02-28T20:40:53Z")
[QUOTE=marshmallow;17150157 (responding to me, above)] So Jesus wasn’t God then. [/QUOTE] Yeah, correct. Jesus of Nazareth was a person who lived ~ 2000 years ago, apparently. The sense in which he was God is the same sense in which YOU are God. Which is to say, “a manifestation of God”. My kitty cat is a mammal and hence a specific local manifestation of what we’re talking about when we speak of mammals. My kitty cat is not _mammalia_. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/78 "2014-02-28T20:53:50Z")
Latro: > [@](#): > > No, I’m afraid it doesn’t. > Your examples only cover a very small subset of what people call “Gods”. > What about all the others; Toth, Artemis, Loki etc etc etc etc etc? > Are they real, but only hold power as far as Yahweh allows them? I really can’t answer in the specific. For example, maybe Toth was a demon or something like that, in which case I’d say that Toth was real. Or maybe we was a personification of all ibises and whatever niche in ancient Egyptian life ibises filled. In which case, I’d say that ibises are real, though Toth as a singular entity isn’t, but what they worshipped was the genuine power of ibises to do whatever it is that they did for Egyptians. And in both cases, the power that these beings have are entirely what the one, true, deity allows them. On the other hand, maybe Toth was a fictional character entirely, with no basis in reality, but created as an additional character to round out a good myth. I don’t really know. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/79 "2014-02-28T21:05:19Z")
Former mentor of mine claimed that the Gods were real, but they were sort of like programs roaming the ‘internet’ of Humanity, metaphorically speaking. Taking up head space in people’s minds to supply their processing power and move around. A ‘thought virus’ would be a similar, medical based metaphor. An organism that lives only in its hosts and depends on them to infect others so that it can spread and continue to exist. You could say then that the only difference between YHVH and Cthulhu is that we all know that Cthulhu is only made up, and we know who did it. However, one could also point at something like Xenu, where we know it was made up and who did it, but undoubtedly at this point there are people who think he is/was real, as a sort of middle ground. The point then becomes not ‘are they made up’ (because they all are), but at what point they become real because some people become convinced that they are real. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442/80 "2014-03-01T17:51:05Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > Yes, aspects or confused perceptions. If I may ask, what particular religious group do you identify with? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-the-religious-what-about-other-gods/682442.md?page=5)