# For those who don't believe in God, what happens after we die, then? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459 "2005-10-22T22:23:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/41 "2005-10-23T17:51:22Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > I think the analogy “same as before you were born” is maybe not even strong enough. Asking “where do you go when you die?” is, IMO, like asking “what happened **before the big bang**?” – in that, like the question about the big bang, this question is actually **meaningless** (there was no time before Big Bang, so no “_before_” to ask about). > In the same way, I think it is actually _meaningless_ to ask about what happens to you “after” you die. For **you** , _there is no “after”_ > > Depressing, ain’t it? A repeating concept in this thread. Doesn’t this assume that the “you” that we are aware of at this point, is the only you there is? I find it interesting that some atheists in this thread still entertain the possibility that there is more you yet to discover. I have a great friend who is a fabulous musician and essentially an atheist. In a discusion about creativity and inspiration he talked of creativity in terms of connecting to something more than ourselves. Interesting choice of words. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/42 "2005-10-23T18:00:40Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > Well, sure I suppose it’s _possible_ that someone like me has lived before and/or will live again. But it won’t be me. Hey!! You said that very same thing about 1837 1/2 years ago to me while we were standing in line at the Coliseum. I was trying to get a corndog. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/43 "2005-10-23T18:08:44Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Doesn’t this assume that the “you” that we are aware of at this point, is the only you there is? Yes. Why should we assume there are other “yous”? ---
**Author:** ![Noone\_Special](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/noone_special/32/2863_2.png) [@Noone\_Special](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Noone_Special)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/44 "2005-10-23T18:12:00Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > I don’t believe in the concept of God as the supreme being in the sky that controls everything and offers eternal life. I will use the term in discussions and have not abandoned every concept of God. I think my concept is closer to the Buddhist idea. > For me the term God is almost a metaphor for the unsolved issues of who are we? Where does life and consciousness come from and what is their nature? and what happens next? > You’ll note in the OP **Idle Thoughts** refered to his Dad who believed in reincarnation but not God. > As I understand it an atheist is someone who doesn’t believe in a deity. I don’t think that means you can’t believe in an afterlife. That being said, I wouldn’t refer to myself as an atheist, just someone who doesn’t accept the common concepts of God. > I’ve just made that even more confusing haven’t I? No, you haven’t 🙂 While I disagree with you, I understand your POV. Thank you for taking the time to explain. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/45 "2005-10-23T18:24:42Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > like the question about the big bang, this question is actually **meaningless** (there was no time before Big Bang, so no “_before_” to ask about). > In the same way, I think it is actually _meaningless_ to ask about what happens to you “after” you die. For **you** , _there is no “after”_ > > Depressing, ain’t it? Exactly my opinion. But I’d extend the analogy further. Why should the concept of the end of your life be any more depressing or meaningful than the question of the end of time? In your frame of reference, all there is the finite timeline in which your consciousness exists. And just like time can’t “end” even though it may be finite - I don’t think you can “die” within your own frame of reference - even though your life is finite. So nothing to be depressed about. There is no end. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/46 "2005-10-23T19:06:31Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > Yes. Why should we assume there are other “yous”? Maybe it’s simply entertaing the possibility rather than assuming. I think it’s short sighted to assume either way. There’s nothing wrong with waiting to see the hard evidence before you believe anything. That’s certainly a legitimate MO. I suspect that if everyone was that way we wouldn’t have half the knowledge we now have. Like the motivational tapes that tell you to believe and visualize to achieve, I think personal growth requires some belief and a sense of purpose. Entertaining the possibility can be those things. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/47 "2005-10-23T19:07:55Z")
> [@Noone Special](#): > > No, you haven’t 🙂 While I disagree with you, I understand your POV. Thank you for taking the time to explain. You are most welcome ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/48 "2005-10-23T19:09:32Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > Exactly my opinion. But I’d extend the analogy further. Why should the concept of the end of your life be any more depressing or meaningful than the question of the end of time? In your frame of reference, all there is the finite timeline in which your consciousness exists. And just like time can’t “end” even though it may be finite - I don’t think you can “die” within your own frame of reference - even though your life is finite. So nothing to be depressed about. There is no end. 😕 Lost me on that one. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/49 "2005-10-23T19:15:41Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > 😕 Lost me on that one. Yeah. I lose everyone. It’s probably a shallower point than I think, but it’s very meaningful to me. Let’s just say I see a lifetime as a closed system. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/50 "2005-10-23T19:17:46Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > Like the motivational tapes that tell you to believe and visualize to achieve, I think personal growth requires some belief and a sense of purpose. Entertaining the possibility can be those things. Hehe. Now you lost me. What does life after death have to do with personal growth and purpose? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/51 "2005-10-23T19:18:41Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > 😕 Lost me on that one. The idea is “you can’t be aware of the end of your own consciousness.” ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/52 "2005-10-23T21:22:39Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > Hehe. Now you lost me. What does life after death have to do with personal growth and purpose? I’ll try to explain but be patient. It’s one of those ideas in progress and they are usually a mess when they first start bouncing around in my head. In the motivational tapes they say visualize your goal. A new home. A cruise, a sailboat, whatever. Think as if it’s yours and eventually it will be. It’s just a tool to keep you focused. Even in martial arts they say you must believe several boards or bricks are going to brreak. Believe it. Viualize it. A tool to focus your energy and thoughts. I think spiritual beliefs can be like that. For some anyway. It’s not a matter of thinking. “This is the way it must be” It’s more of decideing that believeing certain things work in order to focus on the “what’s it all about” and “why are we here?” question. How do I relate to other people and why? I don’t recommend people cling to beliefs that have ample evidence of being false. I don’t call that growth. In those areas where a lack of conclusive evidence leaves the possibilities open then people should choose whatever seems to work for them no matter how foolish it may seem to someone else. Some of like red and some of us like blue. It’s all part of the fun. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/53 "2005-10-23T21:28:51Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The idea is “you can’t be aware of the end of your own consciousness.” Ahhhhhh {light goes on} Well that makes sense but certainly we think about it and even worry about it. Maybe fear it. We each find our own way to deal with it,… I just hope I still have the strength to kick and scream in protest. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/54 "2005-10-23T21:57:21Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > In those areas where a lack of conclusive evidence leaves the possibilities open then people should choose whatever seems to work for them no matter how foolish it may seem to someone else. Some of like red and some of us like blue. It’s all part of the fun. I absolutely agree in that I think the most “true” belief is often not the same thing as the most “useful” belief. I’m in favor of not being an atheist in the trenches if it’s too painful, for instance. I’m not a purist that way. Sometimes it helps to pretend there’s a God. Or Heaven. Or whatever works. I disagree with you in that I don’t quite believe it’s an open question what happens after death. I know that sounds arrogant. But in order to even talk about any kind of experience after death, you have to assume something supernatural - a consciousness of some kind that is independent of the brain. To me saying “it’s possible there is something after death” is like saying “it’s possible there are leprechauns.” It’s a true statement, but only true because literally anything is \*possible \* in absolute terms. Not because it’s really “just anyone’s guess.” But then again, if I were to choose between a useful belief that wasn’t true and a true belief that wasn’t useful, I’d (probably) go with the useful one. I think you have to be pragmatic. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/55 "2005-10-23T22:26:06Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > I disagree with you in that I don’t quite believe it’s an open question what happens after death. […] It’s a true statement, but only true because literally anything is \*possible \* in absolute terms. Not because it’s really “just anyone’s guess.” I’ll second that. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/56 "2005-10-23T22:45:05Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > I absolutely agree in that I think the most “true” belief is often not the same thing as the most “useful” belief. I’m in favor of not being an atheist in the trenches if it’s too painful, for instance. I’m not a purist that way. Sometimes it helps to pretend there’s a God. Or Heaven. Or whatever works. And to many it is not pretending since they are true believers, but even that I see as just a certain turn in a winding path. That’s how their particular journey is played out. To each his or her own. For the sake of this discussion I’m leaving out those with dark hearts, believers and non. > [@](#): > > I disagree with you in that I don’t quite believe it’s an open question what happens after death. I know that sounds arrogant. But in order to even talk about any kind of experience after death, you have to assume something supernatural - a consciousness of some kind that is independent of the brain. To me saying “it’s possible there is something after death” is like saying “it’s possible there are leprechauns.” It’s a true statement, but only true because literally anything is \*possible \* in absolute terms. Not because it’s really “just anyone’s guess.” They’re not exactly the same. Leprechauns or IPU are pretty specific while “something” after death isn’t a specific belief. I think some judgement calls are legitamately made not just on the evidence we have so far but an awareness of what we don’t know as well. A consciousness independent of the brain may be supernatural now based on our limited knowledge but then again, so was the concept of flight 1000 years ago. I would confess a limited understanding of the science of brain activity but I operate under the assumption that there is much more unknown than known. Given the limits of our understanding, isn’t it still an open question? > [@](#): > > But then again, if I were to choose between a useful belief that wasn’t true and a true belief that wasn’t useful, I’d (probably) go with the useful one. I think you have to be pragmatic. More than that I believe there is a real connection between the sense of wonder that keeps asking the prenial questions,and forming our changing mythology and our quest for knowledge that has led to scientific advancement. I don’t think they are as seperate and independent as some see them. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/57 "2005-10-23T22:57:36Z")
> [@cosmosdan](#): > > They’re not exactly the same. Leprechauns or IPU are pretty specific while “something” after death isn’t a specific belief. I think some judgement calls are legitamately made not just on the evidence we have so far but an awareness of what we don’t know as well. “We” are something pretty specific, and in most cases, “continuing to be” is pretty specific. It involves awareness, existence, and some kind of interaction or sensation of whatever is around you, for starters. ---
**Author:** ![Euthanasiast](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Euthanasiast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euthanasiast)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/58 "2005-10-23T23:03:40Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > Not a good analogy. The photons still exist, or they convert to something else. There just aren’t any new photons created. > > But it sounded good! Actually, **Diogenes’s** analogy is quite apt given what physically occurs when you die. Death has always been the great unknowable. As debated here thousands of times, we create our own afterlives in futile attempts to combat that great unknowable. So much emphasis is placed on our day to day lives that we cannot comprehend that it will someday all be for nothing and that our consciousness is little more than collections of electrical and chemical reactions inside the brain. These electrical and chemical reactions are going to cease to exist at a certain moment, in a certain hour, in a certain month of a certain year. It is the ultimate Dick Clark ball drop. The great question is, when is your moment? That is all there is to it. There is no towering deity in a neatly-pressed white robe, backlit with flooding light. There is no walk through a gate made from rare minerals nor a saint who’s existence is made up wholly of running his finger down pages, looking for names of those that might have back stage passes. The light goes out, the heat from its central point diminishes, and you begin to exist as fading, vaporous, vague images in the consciousness of those who felt your heat while it was still radiating. I submit that if we stopped to consider this heat while we are still alive and how it affects others, we may yet discover the key to living further beyond the absence of that light. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/59 "2005-10-23T23:24:22Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > As the Blood Sweat and Tears song said, “I swear there aint no Heaven and I pray there aint no Hell, but only my dieing will tell.” Or sumpin like that. Actually, that’s a [Laura Nyro composition,](http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/And-When-I-Die-lyrics-Laura-Nyro/2EC5DA9E217E28C148256D9900108343) recorded by many people: > [@](#): > > I’m not scared of dying and I don’t really care. > If it’s peace you find in dying, well, then let the time be near. > If it’s peace you find in dying, when dying time is here, > just bundle up my coffin cause it’s cold way down there, > I hear that’s it’s cold way down there, yeah, crazy cold way down there. > > And when I die and when I’m gone, > there’ll be one child born and a world to carry on, to carry on. That pretty much sums it up for me. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459/60 "2005-10-24T00:25:41Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > “We” are something pretty specific, and in most cases, “continuing to be” is pretty specific. It involves awareness, existence, and some kind of interaction or sensation of whatever is around you, for starters. Fair enough. I repeat my question. Given the limited scope of our understanding, isn’t the question of whether we continue to be an open question? IMHO saying, there may be something after physical death is an acknowledgement of an area that science hasn’t been able to tell us much. An acknowledgement of largely unexplored territory. That seems different than belief in Leprechauns. I understand that there is no need to ask any arbitrary question that can’t be answered, but the “is there something after physical death” question has been asked for as long as thinking has been around. Where consciousness comes from and it’s limits {if any} is a worthy question. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-those-who-dont-believe-in-god-what-happens-after-we-die-then/327459.md?page=4)