# For what reasons did the Old South and Nazi Germany think they could win the war?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-what-reasons-did-the-old-south-and-nazi-germany-think-they-could-win-the-war/833871
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [May 12, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-what-reasons-did-the-old-south-and-nazi-germany-think-they-could-win-the-war/833871 "2019-05-12T22:46:51Z")
**Posts on this page:** 6
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2019, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-what-reasons-did-the-old-south-and-nazi-germany-think-they-could-win-the-war/833871/121 "2019-05-20T07:18:17Z")
> [@RickJay](#):
>
> The Japanese did not target battleships instead of carriers; they targeted battleships because there were no carriers to attack. All the carriers were out, by sheer chance. Enterprise was delivering planes to Wake Island, Lexington was delivering planes to Midway, and Saratoga was in San Diego.
>
> Had the carriers been in port they would have been attacked.
See Post 119. The targeted **both** carriers and battleships. See the book I cited for an interesting analysis of the various bomber types and quantities originally assigned to each of the groups and the differences in the plans which went to Yamamoto and the higher officers compared to the orders given to the aviators.
For all the hero worshipping of Yamamoto, his approach to Pearl Harbor target selection was quite conventional. He wanted battleships sunk.
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### Author:  [@Johnny\_Ecks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ecks)
#### Post date: [May 20, 2019, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-what-reasons-did-the-old-south-and-nazi-germany-think-they-could-win-the-war/833871/122 "2019-05-20T11:06:25Z")
It’s interesting that the original Japanese war plan actually isn’t bad, given their resources- attack a major American target, probably the Philippines such that an immediate response is required, harass and reduce the American fleet with submarines and land based aircraft, and fight a decisive battle in Japanese home waters, making logistics difficult for the U.S. and easy for Japan.
Their entire fleet was built around this idea- they sacrificed range, comfort, damage control for power with the idea that they would be fighting near their own ports. Attacking Pearl Harbor ironically ruined this plan, with the destruction of the American battleships insuring that no immediate response was going to happen.
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### Author:  [@bubba001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bubba001)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-what-reasons-did-the-old-south-and-nazi-germany-think-they-could-win-the-war/833871/123 "2019-05-27T03:10:05Z")
> [@Brayne\_Ded](#):
>
> Depends on the type. A few years ago in Germany my wife and I were cycling around in the fields outside Duesseldorf, where I lived, and passed a field of maize. We figured that the farmer wouldn’t miss a few corncobs and took four back home. We noticed that it looked a sort of brownish yellow as opposed to the usual golden yellow, and realized that it was quite a different sort when we ate it. Or tried to eat it. It was tough and did not taste that good. We put it back and boiled it longer, but it still obstinately remained woody. Evidently we had deprived some poor animal of its lunch.
>
> Food of last resort? A couple of now elderly Germans who had trekked out of what is now Poland in 1945 told of being fed with groats en route by the locals. Nostalgia? They couldn’t eat them after the war.
The overwhelming volume of corn grown is field corn. Sweet corn, is a different type of corn, genetically engineered to have more sugar. There are other types of corn grown, popcorn being one. Field corn is edible out of the field, but is has a very narrow window of time. Most corn is harvested after it drys down, the kernels get very hard. I think they try for about 20% moisture, the local guys here have some huge dryers to get the moisture content down.
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### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2019, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-what-reasons-did-the-old-south-and-nazi-germany-think-they-could-win-the-war/833871/124 "2019-05-27T04:57:33Z")
> [@bubba001](#):
>
> The overwhelming volume of corn grown is field corn. Sweet corn, is a different type of corn, genetically engineered to have more sugar.
I thought it was selected? 😕 Until very recently, varietals were a matter of selective breeding, grafting (depending on the type of plant), etc. I think corn on the cob has been around a lot longer than genetic engineering.
According to [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_corn), sweet corn is due to a recessive mutation. That’s selection, not engineering. Then again, according to the same source, “sweet corn is eaten as a vegetable, not a grain”… if so, you guys definitely have different definitions of “vegetable” and “grain” than Spanish does, because for us the mode of preparation doesn’t change the food group.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2019, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-what-reasons-did-the-old-south-and-nazi-germany-think-they-could-win-the-war/833871/125 "2019-05-27T05:11:37Z")
> [@Nava](#):
>
> According to [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweet_corn), sweet corn is due to a recessive mutation. That’s selection, not engineering. Then again, according to the same source, “sweet corn is eaten as a vegetable, not a grain”… if so, you guys definitely have different definitions of “vegetable” and “grain” than Spanish does, because for us the mode of preparation doesn’t change the food group.
Really? So in Spain, tomatoes and cucumbers are considered fruit?
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### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [May 27, 2019, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-what-reasons-did-the-old-south-and-nazi-germany-think-they-could-win-the-war/833871/126 "2019-05-27T05:17:36Z")
No, but they aren’t considered fruit part of the time and vegetables other times depending on the specific recipe (the “fruits and vegetables” group is a single one anyway). Potatoes go with starches, corn goes with starches no matter how it’s prepared. If eating it on the cob makes corn a vegetable, then eating it con leche makes rice a fruit…
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