# For you, does Christmas have anything to do with Christianity? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 9, 2009, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589 "2009-12-09T15:04:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/21 "2009-12-09T15:55:43Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > edit: **Der Trihs** , but even the Big Giant Star on a tree and St Nicholas are Christian symbols, just less recognisable ones! I’m not sure that the star tree topper is not recognizable as Christian. I’ve always assumed that it represented the Star of Bethlehem. I think that there’s so much Christianity (and other, more pagan, traditions) woven into the holiday that it’s sometimes hard to see them. Isn’t the tradition of gift-giving based on the gifts of the magi? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/22 "2009-12-09T15:57:32Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Within the context of the question … _for me_, of course not because I’m not a Christian. However, I do realize that it is essentially a Christian holiday. Don’t know if anyone noticed the big “Christ” right in the title. > > But there is no denying that Christams has been co-opted for the heathens into a purely commercial enterprise. That’s the one I … not celebrate, as much as tolerate. The days of the week have the names of pagan gods right there in the titles : SUN day, MOON day, THOR’S day. WODAN’S day, SATURN’S day. That doesn’t make them pagan. Chistmas existed before Christianity anyway. It was “heathen” before it was Christian. Christians just adopted a holiday that was already popularly celebrated and imposed their own meaning on it. It’s really a solstice celebration at bottom. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/23 "2009-12-09T15:58:08Z")
> [@SecondJudith](#): > > I mean, there’s an angel on top of the Christmas tree! It’s called _Christmas_, for god’s sake, of course it’s religious. Just because most people celebrate it by buying things doesn’t mean it’s not religious. We’ve always had a star at the top of our tree. Yes I understand at it’s basis it’s a religious holiday, but my family celebrates in a completely 100% non-religious way. ---
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/24 "2009-12-09T15:59:30Z")
Its about the ham. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/25 "2009-12-09T15:59:44Z")
Yes, but as **Freddy the Pig** notes, Christmas itself (and, indeed, the nativity myth) is an amalgamation of various pagan beliefs and practices, so if we’re going to “credit” it as a religious holiday, it makes as much sense to call it a celebration of the birth of Horus as of Jesus. ETA: that was a response to **tdn.** ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/26 "2009-12-09T16:00:01Z")
Excuse me, you’ve got your Christmas into my Winter Solstice. Seriously, I have no objections to either, but yes, it’s important to me to elebrate something at this time of the year. Christmas is everywhere! And it is completely secular to me, to the point that I refuse to put angels\* on my tree or anywhere in my house. I do have a giant star as my tree topper, but hell, it’s just a star and it only has meaning if you chose it to. \*Angels aren’t supposed to be these girly little things anyway, with long locks and curly hair. When I think of my angels, they are big tough guys like Michael or Gabriel, or hell, Lucifer. Coming with a flaming sword for vengeance. If they made those kinds of angels I might put on one my tree. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/27 "2009-12-09T16:01:55Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Isn’t the tradition of gift-giving based on the gifts of the magi? No, the gift giving goes back to the Roman Saturnalia. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/28 "2009-12-09T16:03:02Z")
I’d say that it’s about 10% religious for me and 90% secular I usually only think about the religious aspect occasionally and only when I’m alone. I spend much more time thinking about how the lights are making the dark nights much more enjoyable and getting to spend time with my family and friends. I enjoy both giving and receiving presents so that is fun to both think about. If I was actually an atheist instead of a Christian I think I could easily divorce Christmas of all religion. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/29 "2009-12-09T16:04:47Z")
> [@Lanzy](#): > > Its about the ham. You have to wonder how Yeshua of Nazareth, the devout Jewish teacher and prophet, w0uld feel about people eating pork to celebrate his birthday. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/30 "2009-12-09T16:08:05Z")
It’s nearly 100% religious for me. I mean, I participate in all of the traditions that have been adopted from pre- and non-Christian sources, but the actual holiday for me is a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ. It would seem relatively meaningless apart from that. I also try to focus on Advent and try to really avoid thinking about the actual Christmas season until it starts on Dec 25. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/31 "2009-12-09T16:12:32Z")
It doesn’t bother you that the birth of Jesus didn’t actually occur on December 25? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/32 "2009-12-09T16:15:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Yes, but as **Freddy the Pig** notes, Christmas itself (and, indeed, the nativity myth) is an amalgamation of various pagan beliefs and practices, so if we’re going to “credit” it as a religious holiday, it makes as much sense to call it a celebration of the birth of Horus as of Jesus. True. But it has been in the hands of Christians for, what, about 1700 years now? You can’t unweave Christianity out of it any more than you can unweave yule out of it. That’s one thing I love about the holiday. It’s such a rich tapestry of traditions, and it’s being added to all the time. Christmas just isn’t Christmas anymore without mention of the Red Ryder BB gun with a compass in the stock and this thing which tells time. In a few more years, Will Farrell’s Elf will be as much a part of it as much as the manger ever was. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/33 "2009-12-09T16:15:57Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > \*Angels aren’t supposed to be these girly little things anyway, with long locks and curly hair. When I think of my angels, they are big tough guys like Michael or Gabriel, or hell, Lucifer. Coming with a flaming sword for vengeance. If they made those kinds of angels I might put on one my tree. Here you go, Mika. Put [that on your tree](http://www.nuclearblastusa.com/nb/images/album/658/medium/DeathAngel_SonicGermanBeatdown_CD_300.jpg). I don’t do Christmas at all. Every day is a holiday at my house, but if there are days that we really overdo it to a frenzied pitch, it is Holloween and birthdays. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/34 "2009-12-09T16:16:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It doesn’t bother you that the birth of Jesus didn’t actually occur on December 25? No, not a whit. That’s just the day the church has chosen to celebrate it, since we don’t know the actual date. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/35 "2009-12-09T16:16:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, the gift giving goes back to the Roman Saturnalia. I did not know that. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/36 "2009-12-09T16:19:06Z")
We’re not Christian but we still celebrate Christmas. We’ve adopted and adapted the holiday to our family. That said, it’s silly to say it doesn’t have anything to do with Christianity. That’s just not why it’s important to me. It would be as if we celebrated Hanukkah and said it wasn’t about Judaism. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/37 "2009-12-09T16:25:48Z")
Not really. Most people in the US celebrate Christmas. Most people do not celebrate Hannukah. As I said, though, most people (including Christians) do not bother with the special religious observances of Christmas. Plus, it’s a federal holiday. It’s more like saying that pizza is not Italian food. Sure, it may have _originated_ in Italy, but to the average American, pizza either comes from Chicago or New York. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/38 "2009-12-09T16:26:37Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You have to wonder how Yeshua of Nazareth, the devout Jewish teacher and prophet, w0uld feel about people eating pork to celebrate his birthday. 😃 Wow. You really be dropping the knowledge on me about Christianity! I always thought Moses brought the law, but Jesus released them from it. I vaguely remember something about Peter being told he can eat of all the things on the table now? Or some quote about it not being what goes in a body that defiles it, but what comes out? I’m sorry to hijack. Please straighten me out though, even if it is by PM. Did Jesus actually frown on eating pork? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/39 "2009-12-09T16:34:46Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Wow. You really be dropping the knowledge on me about Christianity! I always thought Moses brought the law, but Jesus released them from it. I vaguely remember something about Peter being told he can eat of all the things on the table now? Or some quote about it not being what goes in a body that defiles it, but what comes out? I’m sorry to hijack. Please straighten me out though, even if it is by PM. Did Jesus actually frown on eating pork? 4 Romans: > [@](#): > > 13It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, 15because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression. 10 Acts: > [@](#): > > About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” > > “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” > > The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” So, Jesus woulda loved him some bacon, right? Well… [QUOTE=5 Matthew] 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [/QUOTE] …maybe not. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2009, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589/40 "2009-12-09T16:39:52Z")
> [@Nzinga\_Seated](#): > > Here you go, Mika. Put [that on your tree](http://www.nuclearblastusa.com/nb/images/album/658/medium/DeathAngel_SonicGermanBeatdown_CD_300.jpg). Um. Ick. Thanks love, but I don’t want an UNDEAD ANGEL haunting my nightmares, either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-you-does-christmas-have-anything-to-do-with-christianity/520589.md?page=3)