# For your delectation .... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 27, 2004, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866 "2004-11-27T13:41:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/21 "2004-11-28T19:21:44Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > It was more like, “I can’t believe you, you’re such a sneaky, manipulative little thing, luring someone here to trap them-what a shitty Christian you are!” > > THEN going and locking the other thread, because **vanilla** ’s not here to respond. > > I don’t blame her for suspending **vanilla**. But I think she could have been blunt and to the point without being outright snarky. I don’t know. I think Vanilla’s lucky not to be banned forever, and what she did was WAY the hell over the top re dragging a non-board member into the SDMB scrum for a thrashing, and it was something she’d been warned about before. I think TD’s tounge lashing of her was well deserved. What the hell was she thinking doing something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/22 "2004-11-28T20:38:59Z")
If we want this thread to remain open, (do we?) then we should probably try to limit ourselves to talking in a general way about **Tuba** , without letting this become another thread in which some posters work at tearing **vanilla** a new one. That may be difficult, of course. > [@Stately Plump Buck Mulligan](#): > > In other words: her criticism went rather beyond what is normally doled out to bannees. Yeah, I get that view. I guess I just don’t see it as vindictive or unjust – quite the contrary. Bannees are usually dispatched without a lot of comment, because they’re _not worth it._ “That’s just about enough from you.” Think no more of them. If you’ve got a poster who is actually a valued member of our little microcosm, they have an established pattern of recidivist behaviour when treated with gentle admonishments, and _you don’t want to have to ban them_, what do you do? Do you keep the kid gloves on, and just hope against hope that this will be the last time? That amounts to “I’ll ban 'em next time.” Sure, harsh words were spoken, but I don’t think they were intended to be hurtful. They were substantially true. Look at it this way: By saying “This behaviour is so unchristian,” our humble **TubaDiva** is banking on **vanilla** being alert enough to recognize that as true, and _good enough_ to want to check such behaviour when she’s given another chance. It’s not like she said, “Fuck you, lady, you’re a worthless bitch who’s bad to the core and we’ve no use for the likes of you,” and then banned/suspended her. Strong criticism is a kindness when it’s required and you trust that the recipient is constitutionally capable of changing whatever the problematic behaviour is. This is what this was. In my humble opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/23 "2004-11-28T20:41:48Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > That may be difficult, of course. I should clarify that what I meant by that is that it’s difficult to talk about one side of an issue without mentioning the other side, and not that it’s natural for people to want to “tear vanilla a new one.” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/24 "2004-11-28T23:08:57Z")
It’s not even the unChristian thing, so much, too, as that she automatically assumed that **vanilla** did it deliberately. I don’t think she did, and either way, since she’s banned we have no way of knowing. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/25 "2004-11-28T23:23:05Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > It’s not even the unChristian thing, so much, too, as that she automatically assumed that **vanilla** did it deliberately. But she _did_ deliberately send the thread to an elder at the church, bringing them into the dispute (or bringing the SDMB into what should’ve been an all-church thing, whicherver). If there’s not a rule against that, it’s still a really bad idea and I got the sense she’d been warned about it before. The church elder forwarding the e-mail to the pastor, which I guess was the last straw, was not exactly a shocking turn of events. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/26 "2004-11-28T23:43:48Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > But she _did_ deliberately send the thread to an elder at the church, bringing them into the dispute (or bringing the SDMB into what should’ve been an all-church thing, whicherver). If there’s not a rule against that, it’s still a really bad idea and I got the sense she’d been warned about it before. The church elder forwarding the e-mail to the pastor, which I guess was the last straw, was not exactly a shocking turn of events. I KNOW that. What I mean is, did she do it on purpose so they’d come here, and she could ambush him, as **Tuba** implied? THAT is up for debate. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/27 "2004-11-28T23:55:40Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > It’s not even the unChristian thing, so much, too, as that she automatically assumed that **vanilla** did it deliberately. I don’t think she did, and either way, since she’s banned we have no way of knowing. If you send someone a link to an interactive forum in which people are calling them pharisees, malicious talkers, jerks, etc, suggesting that their church is a bad one and creepily cultish, making disparaging speculations about their motivations and pontificating about what they _should_ have said, what do you _expect_ to come of that? If you don’t conclude that the intent was to use the SDMB community to directly address her personal grievances, what do you think it was? Personally, if I sent someone a link to a page that is very critical of them, and every attack has a button on it that says (REPLY), then I’m going to expect that person to try to defend themselves. If most people responding have been very vocal about their contempt for them, and I know that the community is articulate and well-practiced at flaming people, I’m going to expect them to get ripped to shreds. Sure, it was impossible to foretell the _exact_ consequences, and in all probability what happened is not _exactly_ what was expected, but the act itself was deliberate and no reasonable person can be surprised that it directly involved the SDMB in a member’s petty personal dispute. Someone who scatters ball-bearings on a dance-floor may not have _deliberately_ broken Disco Stu’s nose, (“How could he have known _that_ would happen?”) but they’ve still deliberately done something that can’t be good for anyone else in the club, and if they’ve been chastised for doing it before, they shouldn’t be surprised when they’re manhandled on the way out the door. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/28 "2004-11-29T00:00:54Z")
I got the impression that she sent it to an elder to ask for his opinion, or whatever. Perhaps she did send it to trap them into registering here. Who knows? But I’m saying, we don’t know. And honestly, I don’t care at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_griffin-kentzel/32/14787_2.png) [@Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Griffin-Kentzel)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/29 "2004-11-29T00:20:27Z")
> [@](#): > > If we want this thread to remain open, (do we?) then we should probably try to limit ourselves to talking in a general way about **Tuba** , without letting this become another thread in which some posters work at tearing **vanilla** a new one. Excellent advise, **Larry Mudd**. **Cajun Man** for the SDMB ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/30 "2004-11-29T00:21:22Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I got the impression that she sent it to an elder to ask for his opinion, or whatever. I see. Well that would certainly put a different colour on it, and I can see how that would inform your opinion. But it doesn’t seem to be the case… > [@vanilla](#): > > …the husband is an elder. > [@pastorjc](#): > > I got the link to this bulletin board from an email she sent to the elder in question and joined the board so I could reply. > [@Guinastasia](#): > > And honestly, I don’t care at this point. Really, it’s terrible that this continues to be a source of contention for any of us. I don’t want to see anyone tearing **vanilla** apart, but I don’t think it’s fair to cry foul at **Tuba** , either. My point of view continues to be that the rebuke was harsh, but I can’t imagine a better way to try ensure that **vanilla** is able to retain her membership, and I can’t fault **Tuba** for not finding a pleasant way, either. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/31 "2004-11-29T00:26:18Z")
:smack: Apparently it’s _really_ hard to follow the first part of that advice, though, **Cajun Man**. At least until we figure out that “What is the sound of one hand clapping?” conundrum. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/32 "2004-11-29T00:40:51Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I KNOW that. What I mean is, did she do it on purpose so they’d come here, and she could ambush him, as **Tuba** implied? THAT is up for debate. I think the point is that it doesn’t matter in terms of the suspension, even though it sounds like **Tuba** thought she did it on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/33 "2004-11-29T01:23:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I got the impression that she sent it to an elder to ask for his opinion, or whatever. > > Perhaps she did send it to trap them into registering here. Who knows? But I’m saying, we don’t know. Dear Elder, I have a complaint about how unChristianly I was treated by a member of our community. But rather than tell you about in person, on the phone, or type it out in this email, I’m going to send you a link where I’ve already gossiped about this person. I thought about going through the laborious task of cut-and-pasting what I typed earlier, but that would take forever! So, I’m inserting a hyperlink only so you can see what I already typed – it’s just a thousand times easier. ## While you’re perusing that link, don’t even bother reading what others have typed in response to my attack. I only want you to look at what I typed in my post for your opinion. I certainly don’t expect you or anyone in our congregation’s hierarchy to respond to defend that person I’m characterizing as unChristian in front of hundreds of others. Yeah, I can see how it’s possible that Vanilla’s intentions were pure. It could happen! ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/34 "2004-11-29T02:05:22Z")
So **Tuba** was _snarky_ but gave **Vanilla** the possible option of returning. **Tuba** could have been non-snarky but banned her for life. I would not have blamed her at all for that. Or she could have been snarky _and_ banned **Vanilla** for life. This too would not have seemed unreasonable to me. And yes, the option was there to be non-snarky with a possible return too. But since non-snarkiness didn’t seem to be an effective tool in the past, I sympathize with the desire to do something more effective. If you always do what you always did, you’ll always get what you always got. Besides, sometimes one needs to tell other people just how one feels. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_griffin-kentzel/32/14787_2.png) [@Larry\_Griffin-Kentzel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Griffin-Kentzel)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866/35 "2004-11-29T04:00:13Z")
I thought I was clear, **moriah** , that **Tuba** was fair game, but **vanilla** was not. I was obviously mistaken. **Cajun Man** for the SDMB [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/for-your-delectation/276866.md?page=1)