# Forbidden Forest - Unspoiled Harry Potter Mafia Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 27, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719 "2010-06-27T22:22:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![MHaye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bbe5ce/32.png) [@MHaye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MHaye)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/101 "2010-07-13T01:02:58Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > What’s Monkgate? In brief, an event that happened on Day Nine of Blaster Master’s Cult of Sekham (available in the archives right here. I believe there is only one longer thread in this forum, and two with more views.) The Masony was a school of Monks. Storyteller died early, Zeriel on Night 8. In Day 9, DarkCookies claimed Monk. Idle Thoughts counterclaimed, and asserted zuma was the fourth. The investigator (me) had ID’d a fourth Monk, and it wasn’t zuma. Since I had been outed the previous Day, I called Idle a Sekhamite. Idle went off all over the thread in 7-point text proclaiming his innocence. In the end he was lynched. The game still ran to 14 Days, and came down to 3-handed between DarkCookies, Queuing and Kyrie Eleison. Since DarkCookies was a monk, the entire responsibility was on her shoulders. Who won? RAFO! ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/102 "2010-07-13T01:36:55Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > (1) Storyteller was dead. > (2) Monkgate was the epitome of awesome. > > I don’t understand why Zeriel has such a bad view on Monkgate. Monkgate was AWESOME! It netted two scum basically for free – one that was riding crazy townie cred. Monkgate was a key component to winning that game. Scum false claiming mason generally\* benefits the town. > > Let’s all say it together: Monkgate was super-duper awesomeness. > > \*The exception is when there are no real masons in the game at all. Oh, sure, now you can laud it as being awesome…save for the fact that, at the time, you and all the other monks were shaking in your boots it was going to work and we were going to get away with it. 🙂 It was darned close, too. In fact, I’d wager to say we would have gotten away with it if it wasn’t for **MHaye.** …that meddling kid! ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/103 "2010-07-13T01:40:20Z")
> [@MHaye](#): > > Idle went off all over the thread in 7-point text proclaiming his innocence. In the end he was lynched. Well, it worked in Mafia III, where I was innocent, so I was kind of hoping it would give off the air of history repeating itself. I seem to remember some being hesitant in V just for that reason, too. 😉 (that game, by the way (III), was the start of my large font attribution, which these days–and since Mafia VI or so–I do mostly because it’s expected of me) ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/104 "2010-07-13T07:49:57Z")
It’s also where zuma and Vote Top Dog come from as well. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/105 "2010-07-13T14:00:55Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Does storyteller have a past of being able to send encoded messages? > > What’s Monkgate? Not storyteller specifically, however it is an established technology that Masons + private offboard communication = confirm after death mechanism. I believe it was Kat who implemented the first occurrence of this method. In an innocuous post she hid a message via the first letter of each (word? Sentence? I don’t remember the specifics) that specified who the other mason(s) were. After Kat died, the remaining mason could point to that post as confirmation from Kat that he was indeed a mason. The only way this works is if Kat could privately communicate to the other mason what the coded message was and how to find it. By exploiting these powers masons can confirm each other even if they die. The thing is, knowing this, storyteller didn’t have to claim at all. Both could have encoded messages and left the rest for when one died. Maybe too risky? storyteller would have to do something more sophisticated, but I think he is up to the task. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/106 "2010-07-13T14:04:36Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > Oh, sure, now you can laud it as being awesome…save for the fact that, at the time, you and all the other monks were shaking in your boots it was going to work and we were going to get away with it. 🙂 It was darned close, too. > In fact, I’d wager to say we would have gotten away with it if it wasn’t for **MHaye.** …that meddling kid! Well, that’s kind of the point. It was _totally unnecessary_. Scum were miles ahead of town in that game. The false claim gave Town the opportunity to win. Prior to the claim town was toast. Had the scum not false claimed, I’m confident that scum would have won that game. If the false claimed had worked, scum would have won not because of the false claim, but in spite of it. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/107 "2010-07-13T14:30:31Z")
> [@Harry Potter Mafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potter-mafia/544429/451): > > Monkgate, in the barest bones, was a really boneheaded move by me (because I was a mason who didn’t speak up in time) in which town almost had a situation where some masons were unconfirmable. Story was one of the other masons but he was, IIRC, out of play by that point. The only reason scum didn’t get a mason lynch out of it were twofold–the fourth mason (who had been highly close to asking for a modkill out of frustration) came back in time, and the two scum posing as masons were neither the best actors/liars out there. I think I was right. Zeriel internalized Monkgate not only as a mistake, but his mistake. I disagree! Zeriel, stop denying your awesomeness. Monkgate was a scum error. In the game in question, scum were very close to winning. For some reason they felt the need to get a mason lynched (I still don’t understand the reasoning). Why they didn’t just let the masons be and push for any other townie I do not know, but by false claiming they set up a catastrophic risk. If Town simply flipped a coin, they would have a 50-50 chance at winning, and 50-50 shot at giving up two scum for NOTHING. The problem is, it wasn’t a 50-50 coin flip. We discussed the issue to death and in the process scum revealed far more than they probably wanted to. You would have to ask Cookies what it was that led her to find the last scum, but I feel that the whole mason discussion certainly was a good place to look for scum. - I recall scum stating that Idle was claiming with zuma because that’s who is the mason, he couldn’t simply pick an choose who the other mason was. This statement led to the realization that, yes, Idle thoughts had to pick zuma, because zuma was the only scum left who was a viable scum candidate. All other scum had voted for or been voted by a known mason. This conclusion led to evidence that USCDiver was Town as he also was a non-mason that had not voted for or been voted by a known mason. - I recall scum asking for Mason breadcrumbs. I recall this making storyteller’s head explode in the forbidden thread, but in game the living masons had to play it cool. The thing is, since I was a real mason I had the correct answer. (1) Masons don’t breadcrumb and (2) since I was acutely aware of the need not to breadcrumb, I had been noting of all the little incidences since Day One that ‘might have given us away.’ None of these were intentional breadcrumbs, but they were valid points showing Zeriel (and Cookies) protecting me (and to a lesser extent storyteller. He was, um, shortlived). The end result was questioning by scum towards the real masons. This made the masons look more authentic since they had good answers while possibly exposing other scum. (Again ask Cookies, I don’t know what criterion she used to find the last scum). - I recall scum pointing out that Idle had been key in lynching the first scum on Day One. Hello bussing. Bottom line, yeah, if scum can pull off a fake mason claim it can be powerful (one might even say game breakingly powerful). The problem is pulling off a fake mason claim is prohibitively difficult. It’s like saying “if I win the lottery then I’ll be rich… easy right?” I think the only fake mason claim that has worked is one where the scum team were given mason claims as their ‘safe claim.’ ---
**Author:** ![Idle\_Thoughts](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/838e76/32.png) [@Idle\_Thoughts](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Idle_Thoughts)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/108 "2010-07-13T16:13:30Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Well, that’s kind of the point. It was _totally unnecessary_. Scum were miles ahead of town in that game. The false claim gave Town the opportunity to win. Prior to the claim town was toast. Had the scum not false claimed, I’m confident that scum would have won that game. > If the false claimed had worked, scum would have won not because of the false claim, but in spite of it. True, and I had said this too, on the scum boards…but I was outvoted on the plan of action to take. The other scum (at the time– **Santo, zuma, NAF and Kylie** ) decided on the “ **Zuma** and I claim monk” plan. Me, I was against it as I was all of thought Town at that point. I didn’t want to do it. In fact, I remember refusing to do it in the scum thread. 😛 But in the end, when Day started, I figured I wouldn’t go against my own team and gave in. I wonder if **Blaster Master** still has those scum boards up? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/109 "2010-07-13T21:13:04Z")
Generally ShadowFacts and I think similarly. The only times I’ve seen him offer reasoning that I disagree with is when he is scum. Therefore, I think ShadowFacts is scum. The pedescribe nonsense makes no sense. The scum “leader” is about to get lynched, so pedescribe attacks a Townie in order to get himself lynched? It makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/110 "2010-07-13T22:21:39Z")
Are game days usually this long? I feel like it would help this game if the days were shorter. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/111 "2010-07-13T22:32:42Z")
A big part of it is that the lynches have been determined early on. In games where the scum don’t completely give themselves away things aren’t as slow because people actually have things to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/112 "2010-07-14T00:07:30Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > Are game days usually this long? I feel like it would help this game if the days were shorter. You are wrong. This game is abnormal. I usually have votes and unvotes flying around and it’s hard to keep up. A lot of times, the lynch is decided late in games and we even end up with ties. Harry Potter Mafia has been quiet and the votes have just been placed and left in many cases. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/113 "2010-07-14T00:34:47Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Generally ShadowFacts and I think similarly. The only times I’ve seen him offer reasoning that I disagree with is when he is scum. > > Therefore, I think ShadowFacts is scum. > > The pedescribe nonsense makes no sense. The scum “leader” is about to get lynched, so pedescribe attacks a Townie in order to get himself lynched? It makes no sense. Apropos of nothing (I’m spoiled, so read nothing into this) – it’s been bugging me all game where I’ve heard the name ShadowFacts before; this just reminded me. In the Disney mafia game over on Giraffe you mentioned I was reminding you of ShadowFacts right up until I didn’t, at which point you said if I actually were him, you’d be accusing me of being scum. Good times. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 9:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/114 "2010-07-14T09:01:32Z")
The best example of hidden messages I saw was Captain Klutz in the Blade Runner game on Idle’s board, who was playing Kat’s backup role and hid the message on Day 1. He spelt out her role title in initials of words with a deliberate mispelling to complete it. Very clever and everyone playing missed it until he pointed it out. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/115 "2010-07-14T14:24:42Z")
In one of pedescribe’s games, the second one I ever played, we had one of our scum(JoeyP, perhaps) false claim doctor. It was the Scarlet Letter game. We had established a claim order and got lucky that we went early. After the false claim was laid, AllWalker claimed truly to be the doctor. Not only that, but he had laid out a code earlier in the game that showed who was town. Despite this, no one listened to him and AllWalker got lynched. We scum won the game without any of us dying the entire game. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/116 "2010-07-14T14:36:03Z")
Actually, that’s not how it went. I really was a (scum) doctor. AllWalker claimed cop before I got to claim, and said that he’d investigated that I was scum. He had also breadcrumbed his previous investigation results. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/117 "2010-07-14T14:43:00Z")
I’ve considered laying out a one time pad scheme for games where scum can’t day talk. But every time I think about doing it, it feels too much like gamesmanship and falls amongst the same categories as handshaking, and the detective claim loophole. Funny aside, now that the other game is over, I can reveal that for the second time since october, i’ve played two nearly identical scum roles simultaneously. First time was as a scum politician in Heroes and Space Hijack and this time was gf-type in Harry Potter and Sock Mafia. Although my performance in Sock was considerably better seeing as scum just finished a perfect game there. With regards to this game, it’s completely mind boggling how slow it’s going. Usually dope games have high points and low points but this is unheard of in my experience. I think most day ones have more posts than this entire game. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/118 "2010-07-14T14:47:12Z")
What is even more strange is how quickly the game filled up for sign-up. Clearly there was demand to play, but once the game started so many people got quiet and many were substituted. Very strange. I think it is the Harry Potter thing. People love Harry Potter, but in the end, its really just Mafia. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/119 "2010-07-14T15:28:10Z")
**ShadowFacts** ’ supposed “strong scum motivation” for **pedescribe** ’s vote just doesn’t hold up at all. Trading a lynch of a Death Eater who was under no suspicion at all for delaying Voldemort’s lynch by a day is a terrible one for scum, especially when the cop is already dead! ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719/120 "2010-07-14T16:11:32Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > I’ve considered laying out a one time pad scheme for games where scum can’t day talk. But every time I think about doing it, it feels too much like gamesmanship and falls amongst the same categories as handshaking, and the detective claim loophole. pad scheme? detective claim loophole? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-forest-unspoiled-harry-potter-mafia-discussion/544719.md?page=7)