# Forbidden Randomness of the Unspoiled Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [March 20, 2010, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111 "2010-03-20T04:14:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/161 "2010-04-13T16:38:54Z")
Ah, so now we have some real drama, in the form of **Oredigger** vs. **Rysto**. I would like to hear from the (presumed) Masons before I completely make up my mind (do either of the posted PMs look inconsistent with their own?), but I’m more suspicious of **Oredigger**. First, as already pointed out, it makes more sense for a real Town doctor to counterclaim a Scum liar than the other way around. Second, though, **Oredigger** ’s claimed strategy doesn’t make sense. He says he’s been self-protecting, but also that he was trying to avoid being targeted for the Night-kill. If he’s self-protecting anyway, then he should be trying even harder than normal to get targeted. OK, the Scum would still be able to eventually come back to him after he starts protecting others, but still, a Doctor who stops one Night-kill is already doing pretty well. Of course, there’s also a niggling little part of my brain that says there’s still the possibility that they’re both Scum, but I think that’s just paranoia: I haven’t seen anything ping-worthy from **Rysto** yet, and it’d be an incredibly risky ploy for Scum to double-claim a power role, especially when they haven’t yet seen a genuine Town power role PM. If they have double-claimed, then there should probably still be a genuine Doctor out there who can out both of them, and any Townie should jump at the chance for a 2-for-1 trade. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/162 "2010-04-13T17:37:06Z")
Yeah, **Rysto** hasn’t done much to give anybody reason to doubt him, whereas **Oredigger** has. I was so sure he was town that I took his word for it and voted for you, actually, **Chronos** , so… all right, bad example. But it would just be a silly move for him to come out as scum and counter-claim just to get the doctor killed in a game where town power roles are already dwindling. It’s hard to see a scenario where that trade makes sense for scum. Also, I don’t like **Mahaloth** ’s response to it all. His uncertainty seems insincere. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/163 "2010-04-15T20:17:58Z")
Uhhh . . . I got caught up in the town’s complacency on Day two and made a bad vote. I wasn’t even trying to manipulate the town just get a vote on record after I managed to miss the end of Day 1. It’s kind of frustrating that I would have made that same vote no matter my role. At least I got the Doc to counter claim me. On a different note I find the game design questions fascinating I keep thinking that I want to try my hand a moding but every time I read these I realize how much time you guys put in to make the games so much fun and I realize I just don’t have the time. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/164 "2010-04-15T20:40:42Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > On a different note I find the game design questions fascinating I keep thinking that I want to try my hand a moding but every time I read these I realize how much time you guys put in to make the games so much fun and I realize I just don’t have the time. You don’t need to worry about it too, too much. I’m just a bit obsessive about these things. Things don’t have to be _perfectly_ balanced. I just like to know how balanced things are for future games, and what combinations of things are more powerful than they seem at first glance. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/165 "2010-04-15T22:25:46Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > You don’t need to worry about it too, too much. I’m just a bit obsessive about these things. Things don’t have to be _perfectly_ balanced. I just like to know how balanced things are for future games, and what combinations of things are more powerful than they seem at first glance. I figure if I were to ever make a game, I’d just use a previously ballanced game and change the color. And then maybe tweak from there. I think that would be easier than starting from scratch. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/166 "2010-04-15T22:28:40Z")
That is an excellent way to do it. Furthermore, if you notice something about the previous game that isn’t quite right, you can do a small modification as well. Building crazy new ideas from scratch is where balance really becomes an effort. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/167 "2010-04-15T22:51:03Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > That is an excellent way to do it. Furthermore, if you notice something about the previous game that isn’t quite right, you can do a small modification as well. > > Building crazy new ideas from scratch is where balance really becomes an effort. It’s also where the fun of building the game is.😉 Out of curiosity, what games that we have played in the past do you (general you) consider to have been balanced? ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/168 "2010-04-16T12:43:25Z")
2 modkills with no reveal? I’m really glad I’m not playing in this one. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/169 "2010-04-16T14:14:49Z")
And with a fuzzy criterion for “inactivity”, to boot. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/170 "2010-04-16T14:52:11Z")
**@Sach** - Did you give Zeriel and MHaye any warnings before the modkill? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/171 "2010-04-16T15:09:09Z")
No. The rules explicitly state warnings would not be issued. The rules also explicitly state that failure to participate would lead to removal. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/172 "2010-04-18T19:52:36Z")
Possible slip from [**special ed**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12355738&postcount=1230): > [@](#): > > worst case we’re at 5-4 which means potential lynch or lose toMorrow. No, 5-4 would be LyLo toDay. It might just be a brain fart, but it might also be that **ed** in fact knows that it is indeed LyLo toMorrow. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2010, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/173 "2010-04-20T04:29:24Z")
> [@Random Mafia](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/random-mafia/532942/1243): > > You might recall that that the only reason that I picked up any votes after Day Two of Cecil Pond was that I “must” have been scum bussing Kelly. Not exactly, I was voting for him because he was the only player to vote for Kelly in a close race who hadn’t already been proven to be Town. And I (we) were right! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/174 "2010-04-22T01:17:40Z")
Well, I can take comfort in having been right about Tom. Really, though, he needs to learn to not take it personally. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/175 "2010-04-22T02:03:06Z")
what i can’t figure out is that if he is what he says he is what’s getting upset about folks being right about? i mean i understand the frustration of being innocent townie and getting jacked early but what up with being scum and getting stretched? ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/176 "2010-04-22T02:56:05Z")
It seems a little too authentic for him to be putting it on, but if I was still playing I’d be driving myself NUTS trying to figure out what his angle is on giving himself up like that. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/177 "2010-04-22T03:55:41Z")
This is too bad, if true. I think Tom is a great player and would be missed. I can understand getting burnt out; I’ve been there, but it seems just finding just one scum or not being killed on day 1 is enough to pump me up to play another game and try to get better. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/178 "2010-04-22T16:11:49Z")
Chronos: It seems like the only way that I play the game _well_ is if I take it personally, and if I’m going to completely half-ass all my games the way I did story’s game on idle, there’s no point. I’m going to take Jimmy’s advice to Meeko on this one; not worth the aggro. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/179 "2010-04-22T16:14:03Z")
Peeker, the thing that actually killed me was Drain’s unvote and the realization that I was going to have to screw myself up again next week if things kept trending the way they seemed to. I was really burned out and exhausted the past two days, and it was Not Fun. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [April 22, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111/180 "2010-04-22T16:41:04Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Peeker, the thing that actually killed me was Drain’s unvote and the realization that I was going to have to screw myself up again next week if things kept trending the way they seemed to. I was really burned out and exhausted the past two days, and it was Not Fun. fair enough, kind of. i guess what i don’t get is that some of me best internet friends our the mafia folks. look at poker tonight, holy crud it was down to just a bunch of grey beards and now we’ve got some new blood who just like yukking around. and i guess with me since i play here, giraffe and idle there’s always another game underway or another one that is getting ready to go so getting whacked in one isn’t real impactful. also, you get to meet some fine folks. i’ve had some relatively good off board interaction with them. just because they think you are full of shit in the game don’t mean jack when it comes to rl (ask chitwood). but if creates stress and heartache, fcs, stop. but you are a good player and getting called on your bullshit isn’t necessarily a bad thing. shoot, i know that in spades. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-randomness-of-the-unspoiled-mafia/533111.md?page=10)