# Forbidden thread Version 3 (off limits to players of Mafia III) **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [April 19, 2007, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795 "2007-04-19T15:34:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/301 "2007-06-04T01:18:03Z")
**sachertorte:** > [@](#): > > Mistakes happen and quite frankly, Gaderene probably shouldn’t have posted that post about your post. True. Also true that (a) I probably should have subbed **Idle** out the second that happened, and (b) **Idle** shouldn’t beat himself up over it. I do wish it hadn’t happened, but it was ultimately my fault, not his. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/302 "2007-06-04T01:32:02Z")
Mistakes happen. I do want a place in the next game, though, 'cause **Idle Thoughts** was the ringleader for my lynching when he was already dead! ---
**Author:** ![Clockwork\_Jackal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Clockwork\_Jackal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clockwork_Jackal)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/303 "2007-06-04T04:57:43Z")
Watching this game has been really interesting and informative. Now, what I want to know is, when the mafia recruit, do you think there will be a detectable change in posting style for the recruit? If there is, I wonder what form it’ll take? ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/304 "2007-06-04T14:02:26Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] I do wish it hadn’t happened, but it was ultimately my fault, not his. [/QUOTE] Whoops. My statement about Gadarene’s post about Idle Thoughts’s post wasn’t meant to place blame on Gadarene or anyone else. I actually appreciated the post, because it gave us something to talk about. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2007, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/305 "2007-06-04T18:46:46Z")
Question for Gadarene: How are you handling recruitment? Does recruitment end the night, meaning the recruit does not have the opportunity to discuss with the mafia before the next day begins? Or can the recruit chat that night? ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/306 "2007-06-05T21:43:06Z")
[QUOTE=sachertorte] Question for Gadarene: How are you handling recruitment? Does recruitment end the night, meaning the recruit does not have the opportunity to discuss with the mafia before the next day begins? Or can the recruit chat that night? [/QUOTE] The night ends once the recruit has confirmed their recruitment. However, they are given immediate access to the Mafia boards and can obviously peruse them throughout the Day. (By the way, I’m pretty sure that **Diggit’s** comment that everyone is jumping on was just a joke playing off **Rachm’s** name, although I’m not sure how.) ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/307 "2007-06-05T21:57:16Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] (By the way, I’m pretty sure that **Diggit’s** comment that everyone is jumping on was just a joke playing off **Rachm’s** name, although I’m not sure how.) [/QUOTE] I don’t understand what you are trying to say here. The only way I can make sense of your statement is if you’re trying to tell us that Diggit isn’t scum, so his comment only makes sense as some weird joke. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/308 "2007-06-05T22:25:32Z")
I think it’s time to talk about Masons. The masons have nearly a majority of the town. (assuming 3 masons). If the game started with 4 masons then the game is over. If 3 masons: If mafia recruited mason, what is the win condition of the mason? Since the mafia-mason can win with the masons, the game is basically over with a mason only win (assuming 3 masons). Mason Endgame: Town lynches mafia, which is really easy since the mason-mafia knows who mafia is, then mason-mafia nightkills a not-doctor/not-mason townie. Masons have a majority and win the game. If mafia recruited vanilla town (or doctor) then there is still the chance for a mafia win, but the ability of the mason’s to avoid role claiming and nightkills is pretty much the only thing that’s stopping what was a fairly pro-mafia development in this game. Mafia needs to kill a mason tonight to stay in the game. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/309 "2007-06-05T22:47:19Z")
Well, there are 7 players left. Assuming 4 mafia from the start that leaves one mafia, one recruited mafia, Either 2 or 3 masons, 1 doctor, and 1 or 2 vanilla. This depends on whether the recruit was a mason or not. We can pretty much take as given that the masons aren’t going to get lynched, since it would require both mafia, tirial, and the vanilla townie. Any mason facing lynch is just gonna role claim and it will be believed because any liar would be exposed by the real masons quick as boiled asparagus. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2007, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/310 "2007-06-05T22:58:55Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t understand what you are trying to say here. The only way I can make sense of your statement is if you’re trying to tell us that Diggit isn’t scum, so his comment only makes sense as some weird joke. I thought that somebody — **Hatl Bristotn** , maybe — had commented early on about **Rachtm** having the name of some character in literature or something that had to do with choosing (or knowing) who’s supposed to die. That was the context in which I interpreted **Diggitt’s** comment, which works whether or not he’s scum. I don’t think the comment makes any sense whatsoever on its face if he’s scum _or_ citizen, frankly. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2007, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/311 "2007-06-06T15:34:00Z")
This game just doesn’t want to end does it? I’m wondering why Hal Briston is so keen on Blaster Master. His reasoning seems entirely based on voting pattern rather than vote reasoning. I don’t like it. Then again, I’m biased against DiggitCamara. ---
**Author:** ![Dragoness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c0e974/32.png) [@Dragoness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragoness)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/312 "2007-06-11T13:52:38Z")
Wow, how did this thread end up on page 3? We have been lax. I don’t know how **BlasterMaster** will ever find us. Sorry **Blaster** , hard luck. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/313 "2007-06-11T13:55:50Z")
[QUOTE=sachertorte] This game just doesn’t want to end does it? I’m wondering why Hal Briston is so keen on Blaster Master. His reasoning seems entirely based on voting pattern rather than vote reasoning. I don’t like it. Then again, I’m biased against DiggitCamara. [/QUOTE] In my opinion vote reasoning doesn’t mean squat if your votes don’t back it up. It’s one thing to talk about scum, but you have to vote against them to lynch them. ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/314 "2007-06-11T14:14:33Z")
Funny how the stuff I actually would have done were I pro-town (like voting **Percy** , and drawing attention to the \*\*nesta/Hal \*\* thing) was all the evidence used against me, and all the stuff I deliberately did as scum (like fanning the **Lightnin’** and **SCL** lynches) went either completely unnoticed or I was easily able to weasel out of. I guess that means next time I play scum, I need to be MORE like that, because apparently my townie play looks scummy. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/315 "2007-06-11T14:56:33Z")
Well, I was completely wrong about DiggitCamara. I still say his day two behavior was really scummy, but I wasn’t very good about looking past my bias once I had considered him scum. How about Hal? I haven’t been reading the thread as closely anymore, but did anyone else find the accusation of Blaster Master a bit sudden? I can sort of see it for Blaster Masters Hal/nesta thing, but Hal was really on the rampage. Specifically, I’m concerned by Hal’s statement that if he were wrong about Blaster Master, he would willingly get lynched the next day. No townie could be \*\*that \*\*certain about Blaster Master being scum. Only scum could be certain that Blaster Master was scum. So this makes me think Hal knew Blaster Master was scum because Hal was recruited. The problem with this theory, is why would the recruit go after scum so hard? Crazy gambit? Maybe Hal is a mason going for a mason win? I don’t know. But without much evidence so far as to who the recruit is, **Hal** is at the top of my list for now. ---
**Author:** ![Omi\_no\_Kami](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Omi\_no\_Kami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omi_no_Kami)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/316 "2007-06-11T15:53:48Z")
This has been bugging me as the game nears the endpoint… could someone with a lot of Mafia experience explain to me how the option to Recruit isn’t totally unbalanced? I love the way it adds oodles of paranoia to gameplay, but in a close game like this one doesn’t it make the game practically unwinable for town? If on the night the second to last mobster is lynched the last mobster uses his Recruit, it should be almost impossible for town to accurately figure out who has changed sides within the next day or two. Is that the point, to give Mafia a trump card in close games? ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/317 "2007-06-11T17:36:34Z")
[QUOTE=sachertorte] Well, I was completely wrong about DiggitCamara. I still say his day two behavior was really scummy, but I wasn’t very good about looking past my bias once I had considered him scum. How about Hal? I haven’t been reading the thread as closely anymore, but did anyone else find the accusation of Blaster Master a bit sudden? I can sort of see it for Blaster Masters Hal/nesta thing, but Hal was really on the rampage. Specifically, I’m concerned by Hal’s statement that if he were wrong about Blaster Master, he would willingly get lynched the next day. No townie could be \*\*that \*\*certain about Blaster Master being scum. Only scum could be certain that Blaster Master was scum. So this makes me think Hal knew Blaster Master was scum because Hal was recruited. The problem with this theory, is why would the recruit go after scum so hard? Crazy gambit? Maybe Hal is a mason going for a mason win? I don’t know. But without much evidence so far as to who the recruit is, **Hal** is at the top of my list for now. [/QUOTE] Well, I’m quite certain that he is a mason, which narrows down his initial pool considerably at this point, but as to why he saw me more suspicious than **Diggit** … I cannot explain. Going that hard after scum seems to exonerate people is this town, and he started his tirade before the likely recruitment (I’m going not going to say when it happened), he had to continue because he either was still town and still thought that, or he was recruited and it would make him look bad if he stopped, regardless of who got lynched (me or **Diggit** ). If he is the recruit, he’s playing perfectly. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/318 "2007-06-11T17:41:47Z")
[QUOTE=Omi no Kami] This has been bugging me as the game nears the endpoint… could someone with a lot of Mafia experience explain to me how the option to Recruit isn’t totally unbalanced? I love the way it adds oodles of paranoia to gameplay, but in a close game like this one doesn’t it make the game practically unwinable for town? If on the night the second to last mobster is lynched the last mobster uses his Recruit, it should be almost impossible for town to accurately figure out who has changed sides within the next day or two. Is that the point, to give Mafia a trump card in close games? [/QUOTE] I don’t have a lot of experience, but it’s my understanding that it’s not used very often. But it IS powerful. I think another way to look at it would be “Do we start with 5-6 mafia, or do we start with fewer, forcibly give up a night kill, and let them choose one more at will?” If you lower the numbers appropriately, they come out about even. In this case, all it really does is “reset” the game with fewer people, since in a 7 person game, 2 mafia is appropriate, then it was just fine yesterday, and the town is actually well ahead, especially since the recruit makes the masons meaningless (since even they don’t know if one of them was recruited). ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/319 "2007-06-11T17:54:21Z")
Oh yeah, Masons. I forgot that maybe DiggitCamara and Hal could both be masons, which would better explain Hal’s hard push for Blaster Master. Really, there are many possiblities, but that’s one I hadn’t thought of before. **Omi** , if you read pages 1 and 2 of this thread, we talked quite a bit about recruitment being overpowered. The specific problem I had was determining a pro-town strategy for the Cop with recruitment a possiblity. Also there was the issue with mason claims and recruitment, which amazingly did not come up in this game at all since the masons managed to neither get killed or have to role claim. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795/320 "2007-06-11T18:01:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Also there was the issue with mason claims and recruitment, which amazingly did not come up in this game at all since the masons managed to neither get killed or have to role claim. That’s pretty wild, isn’t it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forbidden-thread-version-3-off-limits-to-players-of-mafia-iii/400795.md?page=17)