# "Forced" into larger tip than proper **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 11, 2015, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541 "2015-08-11T11:00:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/21 "2015-08-11T20:58:08Z")
I don’t understand how your change from $40 on a $31.88 bill was $10?? Was there a discount applied or am I missing something? Either way, you weren’t forced to leave a tip. This happens to me occasionally. I pay $20 for a $14 bill and get a five and a one back. I wanted to tip $3-$4, say. When that happens, I ask the waitress, cashier or bartender for change for the five. It has never been a problem. If you ask me, the fact that she couldn’t make correct change is far more concerning. Waitstaff _have_ to know how to handle money. It’s a significant part of their job. I know children who are better with money than that. She should have brought back $8.12 and then you could have left $8, or $6, or whatever you wanted. She didn’t force you to leave a larger tip. She was, however, incompetent at her job. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/22 "2015-08-11T21:05:19Z")
I get annoyed when waitstaff doesn’t give me workable change for the bill. especially when I specifically ask. So the tip would gets calculated against them or even completely wiped out. Bill is $52.50 I give the waitress 4 twenties and ask for change. Waitress brings back 1 $20, 1 $5, 2 $1s and 2 quarters… My plan would have been to tip $11-$12 but since I was brought back the twenty I asked to be broken I guess she only wanted a 7.50 tip. In the OP’s situation if I had 2 $1s I’d have left that rather than the ten. She really prevented the OP from being able to leave as his options were over tip or underpay. I would have definitely avoided leaving the ten, I’d go up to a register and ask for change or flagged the waitress back down. I might begrudging leave the ten under time constraints as I wouldn’t want to wait 15 mins for change either. I’d be pretty unhappy about being ‘forced’ to leave a ten as the OP mentions. ---
**Author:** ![I.Dunno](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9f8e36/32.png) [@I.Dunno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I.Dunno)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/23 "2015-08-11T21:12:44Z")
> [@racer72](#): > > Don’t know if I’m the only one that does not included the tax when figuring the tip. A local restaurant I frequent leaves 15, 18, and 20 percent tip suggestions on the bottom of the bill and I noticed the amounts shown do not include the\*\* tip\*\*. I changed my thinking on tips when I first noticed this. I think you meant “tax”, not “tip” in the second to last line. And I was always taught that you indeed do NOT include the tax in the tip. I tip by the food and drink total sans the tax. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/24 "2015-08-11T21:14:16Z")
I think I’d have pretty much gone “wtf” 😕 and then left with my $10. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/25 "2015-08-11T21:16:40Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > Either way, you weren’t forced to leave a tip. This happens to me occasionally. I pay $20 for a $14 bill and get a five and a one back. I wanted to tip $3-$4, say. When that happens, I ask the waitress, cashier or bartender for change for the five. It has never been a problem. My feelings are I want to pay my bill and be on my way. If I instead have to wait around for the waitress to bring along change a second time they did a shitty job meeting my needs. If the waitress doesn’t think to give me 6 $1s change for a 14 dollar bill it’s likely she’d only get the dollar if she gave a $5 and a $1. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/26 "2015-08-11T21:18:35Z")
> [@I.Dunno](#): > > I think you meant “tax”, not “tip” in the second to last line. And I was always taught that you indeed do NOT include the tax in the tip. I tip by the food and drink total sans the tax. This is that standard. That said I usually calculate tax included so the waiter gets a higher percentage tip out of me. ---
**Author:** ![diggerwam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/919ad9/32.png) [@diggerwam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diggerwam)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/27 "2015-08-11T21:23:57Z")
I was on the outside deck of the restaurant with my dog, it wasn’t too practical to chase down change. Not a big deal, that 2 bucks means more to her than to me. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/28 "2015-08-11T22:26:28Z")
_ **Don’t sweat the small stuff.** _ Assuming 20% default tip you lost less than $2 – and it wasn’t “lost” anyay. Undertip her next time if it matters. Or better yet, bring some small bills with you in future. Yes, the waitress’ move may have been a ploy, but you’re in a hurry and so is she. (I hope she washes her hands frequently if she does handle coins a lot.) She could have counted out nine dollars in change and made it easier for you but, again, just bring small bills next time if this is a problem. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > The forced tip _was_ about $8. Again, you really _are_ brighter than many Dopers. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/29 "2015-08-11T22:42:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, it _is_ 2015. I’ve never worked any sort of retail job, but in 2015 I might assume anyone still paying their restaurant bill in cash is a stripper or drug dealer and and probably has loads of small bills. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![rucciface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ba9def/32.png) [@rucciface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rucciface)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/30 "2015-08-11T22:50:42Z")
If you are paying for food at a restaurant, you obviously don’t care about your money. Just pay your damn server. ---
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/31 "2015-08-11T23:35:15Z")
> [@rucciface](#): > > If you are paying for food at a restaurant, you obviously don’t care about your money. Just pay your damn server. If you are paying for food at a grocery you obviously don’t care about your money. Unless you grow your own food and sew your own clothes from fabric you weave yourself, you obviously don’t care about your money. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [August 11, 2015, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/32 "2015-08-11T23:43:47Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > I’ve never worked any sort of retail job, but in 2015 I might assume anyone still paying their restaurant bill in cash is a stripper or drug dealer and and probably has loads of small bills. 🙂 . . . Or is somebody who realizes that the electricity might go out and leave ATM’s unoperative, or the credit card might get lost, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/33 "2015-08-12T00:10:43Z")
I’m an aussie - we have a non-tipping culture here (it’s done occasionally, but only for extremely good service). I did my trip to the US (Hawaii) last year and was very conscious and nervous about tipping correctly, but I think I got through. I understand that tipping is accepted as part of the wage of the serving staff, and without it there wouldn’t get a fair wage. This is one thing I never understand. The OP said this was a 5-dollar burger place - bill $31 - wanted to leave a 15-20% tip. What if had been a fancy 15-burger place? The bill might have been $60. Therefore, leaving the 15-20% tip means the waiter gets twice as much - for basically doing exactly the same job. Why should the tip paid to the waiter be dependent on the price of the meal - surely it should be on the service? I hear this regularly when a celeb has a big meal or party and will leave a tip in the hundreds or even thousands. I can’t believe there is that much difference in service provided by a waiter. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/34 "2015-08-12T00:16:54Z")
> [@I.Dunno](#): > > I think you meant “tax”, not “tip” in the second to last line. And I was always taught that you indeed do NOT include the tax in the tip. I tip by the food and drink total sans the tax. That’s what I understood was appropriate also. However, two nights ago I was presented with a bill in which the suggested tip amounts were based on the total that included sales tax. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/35 "2015-08-12T00:25:19Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I would not have left a 30% tip. > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It would have been just over a 25% tip 31.37%. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/36 "2015-08-12T00:35:02Z")
> [@Wallaby](#): > > This is one thing I never understand. The OP said this was a 5-dollar burger place - bill $31 - wanted to leave a 15-20% tip. What if had been a fancy 15-burger place? The bill might have been $60. Therefore, leaving the 15-20% tip means the waiter gets twice as much - for basically doing exactly the same job. > > Why should the tip paid to the waiter be dependent on the price of the meal - surely it should be on the service? The 15-20% figure is a rule of thumb, and rules of thumb are not noted for their precision. Personally, I’m much more likely to leave a larger _percentage_ when the absolute amount isn’t as much. But if you need a justification: (1) The more you can afford to spend on your meal, the more you can afford to tip. (2) If you go to a more expensive restaurant, you expect to get better, more attentive service. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/37 "2015-08-12T01:16:30Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > (1) The more you can afford to spend on your meal, the more you can afford to tip. > (2) If you go to a more expensive restaurant, you expect to get better, more attentive service. Well, point one is very political, because you’re assuming the moral high ground in wealth redistribution, but point 2 is very important economically. At a nicer (costlier) restaurant, the expectation is absolutely that service is better. This means more waitstaff per table, and so (roughly speaking) if your meal costs twice as much, your server is only working half the number of tables, and the net tips should be the same. I’m not a restaurateur and have no idea of the _actual_ relationship between meal price and tables-per-waitstaff, but the experience of going to a nice restaurant vs. some mass market place like Red Crustacean is readily apparent. Your waitress at fast-casual chains is just too busy with too many other tables to attend you properly. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/38 "2015-08-12T01:23:46Z")
Waitstaff at expensive resturants make significantly more money. It’s not easy to get a job at a high end resturant and you have to very good to keep it. ---
**Author:** ![rucciface](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ba9def/32.png) [@rucciface](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rucciface)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/39 "2015-08-12T01:29:24Z")
> [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](#): > > If you are paying for food at a grocery you obviously don’t care about your money. > > Unless you grow your own food and sew your own clothes from fabric you weave yourself, you obviously don’t care about your money. Don’t be obtuse. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [August 12, 2015, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541/40 "2015-08-12T01:53:24Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > I’ve never worked any sort of retail job, but in 2015 I might assume anyone still paying their restaurant bill in cash is a stripper or drug dealer and and probably has loads of small bills. 🙂 I recently sold some furniture on Craigslist for cash so I’ve used cash while dining out the past week, although I usually use a card. Back to the OP, I would have told them up front to keep the coins when I paid with cash.The last thing I want is change. I probably would have also just left the $10 if that’s what I would have gotten back rather than $8. I figure if that’s a creative way to increase tips, it’ll blow up when one customer makes a very large fuss about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-into-larger-tip-than-proper/727541.md?page=3)