# Forced Sterilization **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 7, 2003, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482 "2003-02-07T15:57:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Washte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Washte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Washte)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2003, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/21 "2003-02-08T21:25:48Z")
**jjimm** , I too would happily join in a protest of treatment by the Slovakian government. **jarbabyj** : What would be better: a broken heart, or a broken spirit? As a disenfranchised Cherokee married to a Roma gent, my eyes have been opened in ways I never expected. Not only am I exposed to a culture I didn’t know existed outside of children’s books, but get to see how historical abuse long forgotten and dismissed actually _do_ continue to exist. I have read many a news story about the Roma, their treatment in various countries around the world and have come to a conclusion. These people are survivors without a voice, without a home, and without much hope. Thier existance is heart-wrenching. They are condemned to a life of struggle and misfortune by society. They are expected to embrace a _proper_ lifestyle - settlement, cleanliness, education, success… Yet, at every turn they are denied the opportunity, even the very basic of needs (shelter, education, food), and shoved into the gutters like mangey dogs. Reading about the treatment of my husbands people fills me with anger, frustration and overwhleming sadness. What is worse, however, is seeing the impact his heritage has on him, how he is condemned to live a life of solitude, fearful of claiming his identity, torn to pieces because he is unable to do a damned thing to help. It angers me that in the age we are, having freed slaves, broken apartheid, and strive to rectify and save the remotest of cultures, that the Roma continue to be hunted, ostracised, forcifully sterilised, denied even the most basic of human rights. It angers me that my husband cannot do a damned thing to help his people. He can attempt to educate others, battling the ignorance and centuries of stereotypical prejudices. But his voice is only one. It frustrates me to read these reports and news articles knowing that there is not much that can be done to help these people. It frustrates me not knowing how to deal with the emotions raised by the treatment of the Roma. It frustrates me that there is little I can say or do for my husband, other than just be there, to help relieve his pain, frustration, anger and hatred towards the Gorgio. It saddens me to no end knowing that the treatment of the Roma will continue to be degrading, destructive, and prejudicial. That these people are forced to fight for their existance daily against every attempt to erase their existance from the face of this Earth. It saddens me that there are so few voices willing and able to speak for the Roma. It saddens me that even the few voices they do have speaking out for them are not strong and full of hope. Even they know the life of the Roma hangs precariously in these ever troubled times. What can be done for this struggling nation on the brink of extinction? When will people see these people do not deserve the vilification they receive? Where can these people go for safety, acceptance, hope? Who will speak for the Roma? Who is left to care? I don’t know. My heart aches… ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/22 "2003-02-09T02:03:54Z")
> [@](#): > > My heart aches… And you’ve just broken mine ☹ This makes me soooo fucking angry. Bastarding wastes of skin. Where’s their fucking war. Why doesn’t the western world do something about this? Where’s Bush and Blair when they’re **actually** needed? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/23 "2003-02-09T06:17:16Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > \*\*This makes me soooo fucking angry. Bastarding wastes of skin. Where’s their fucking war. Why doesn’t the western world do something about this? Where’s Bush and Blair when they’re **actually** needed? \*\* Because, unfortunately, nobody cares about the Roma. For the most part, nobody’s ever cared about the Roma. Here’s a story from the Guardian about British treatment of Roma refugees. > **[Gary Younge investigates the plight of the Roma](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2003/jan/08/eu.politics)** > > They are the forgotten people, persecuted throughout history, murdered in their hundreds of thousands by the Nazis, seen as second-class citizens in much of eastern Europe. And soon the countries that treat them worst will be our EU partners. Gary... > [@](#): > > At Prague airport stands the British consular office set up specifically to stop Czech Roma coming to the United Kingdom. In July 2001 two undercover Czech TV reporters exposed the routine discrimination when they turned up at the airport with tickets to Britain, the same amount of money and giving the same information. The Roma journalist wasn’t allowed on the plane; his non-Roma colleague was allowed on. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/24 "2003-02-09T11:13:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yojimbo \* > Where’s their fucking war. Why doesn’t the western world do something about this? Where’s Bush and Blair when they’re **actually** needed? If there was a war against all nations who mistreat their ‘Gypsy’ citizens, who would fight it? The West’s hands are not clean. In Eastern Europe the racism, hatred and ethnic cleansing is overt - in Britain (just as an example; there are many others) it is far more subtle. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Captain Amazing \* > Because, unfortunately, nobody cares about the Roma. For the most part, nobody’s ever cared about the Roma. You do. Some other posters do. For that I am thankful. **yojimbo** : I swear that Washte found a way into my heart just so she could break it every day. I wouldn’t want it any different. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/25 "2003-02-09T14:30:02Z")
Found 'em. > [@](#): > > Subject: Greetings from Ireland > To: urad@government.gov.sk > > Dear Sir/Madam, > > Greetings to you from Ireland! I bid you welcome to the European Union > as a fellow member state. > > I am writing to you to express my concern about reports of forced > sterilisation of Romani women in your fine and noble country. > > If reports such as “Body and Soul - Forced Sterilization and other > assaults on Roma Reproductive Freedom in Slovakia” are true, then your > government appears to be participating in, or at least overlooking, a > eugenic practice that should have died out in the 1940s, when your > country was liberated from the kind of people who used to employ this > kind of barbarism. > > The apparent dehumanization of a sector of your population is > disturbing. The apparent lack of concern from the Slovak government is > surprising. > > I would one day like to visit your fine nation as a fellow citizen of > Europe, but I am currently disinclined to contribute any money to your > state. When your country becomes a full member of the EU, I will be > extremely irritated, since your state will be benefitting from grants > that have been contributed by my taxes. I will be happy to participate > in a campaign to prevent this benefit. > > I look forward to hearing precisely what measures you are taking to > fight the reported bigotry, and prevent such atrocities from happening. > > Though your beautiful nation is many miles from where I am, I would > like you to know that you are not ignored: thousands of eyes are upon > you. > > Regards, > > [Name removed] ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/26 "2003-02-09T15:17:22Z")
That thud you heard was my jaw hitting the floor. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/27 "2003-02-09T23:54:04Z")
This is among the most disgusting things I have ever heard. I have ceased to be amazed at the things that one group of so-called human beings can do to another. I also feel obliged to point out the following items from [this site](http://www.slovakia.org/history.htm) on Slovakian history: [quote] Hungarian Ethnic Cleansing (Magyarization) The scars from ethnic cleansing on the part of the Hungarians in the Austro-Hungarian Empire have yet to heal. Slovaks can never forget, and must never forget, the cultural genocide precipitated by their former masters, the Magyars (Hungarians). The Slovak Republic during World War II A period in Slovak history is viewed by most Slovaks with mixed feelings since what was to be a joyous occasion that signaled the birth of a nation and the freedom of a peoples was overshadowed by atrocities sponsored by Nazi Germany. **Kal** , my friend, my heart goes out to you and your people. quote] The hypocrisy of the Slovak government’s actions in the light of their own history of “abuse” by others strikes me as particularly repellant. So now that they are now longer being abused, it’s all right for them to become the abusers? ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2003, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/28 "2003-02-09T23:59:19Z")
Shit, I was so pissed off I didn’t preview one last time before hitting “Submit”. That should have read: This is among the most disgusting things I have ever heard. I have ceased to be amazed at the things that one group of so-called human beings can do to another. I also feel obliged to point out the following items from this site on Slovakian history: > [@](#): > > Hungarian Ethnic Cleansing (Magyarization) > The scars from ethnic cleansing on the part of the Hungarians in the Austro-Hungarian Empire have yet to heal. Slovaks can never forget, and must never forget, the cultural genocide precipitated by their former masters, the Magyars (Hungarians). > > The Slovak Republic during World War II > A period in Slovak history is viewed by most Slovaks with mixed feelings since what was to be a joyous occasion that signaled the birth of a nation and the freedom of a peoples was overshadowed by atrocities sponsored by Nazi Germany. The hypocrisy of the Slovak government’s actions in the light of their own history of “abuse” by others strikes me as particularly repellant. So now that they are now longer being abused, it’s all right for them to become the abusers? **Kal** , my friend, my heart goes out to you and your people. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/29 "2003-02-13T16:39:22Z")
Update: as yet I have had no reply from the Slovak government. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/30 "2003-02-13T19:23:45Z")
My emails (one to the address supplied by **jjimm** , the second to the Slovak Embassy in London) have also not been replied to. Tomorrow, I may drop a line to the UK’s Foreign Office. But, with that Gypsy-hating wanker Jack Straw being Foreign Secretary, won’t hold out for a response. ---
**Author:** ![DaToad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@DaToad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaToad)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/31 "2003-02-13T20:50:24Z")
This link, [geocities.com/Paris/5121/patrin.htm](http://geocities.com/Paris/5121/patrin.htm), has a very good Romani history timeline. As abhorrent as this abuse is, it becomes even more unconscionable when you realize that these people have been suffering this kind of treatment for hundreds of years. ---
**Author:** ![Melan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Melan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/32 "2003-02-14T23:45:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Currently, many Hungarians are either unaware or refuse to acknowledge this horrific and shameful part of their history, or, similar to Holocaust denial, they provide a bevy of apologias that purport to justify the ethnic cleansing policies of Magyarization, either by citing similar examples in other regions or by claiming such policies were executed under political necessity. It is time for the Hungarian people to clearly and loudly own up to the wrongs of the past, pay reparations, and create a national monument for this cultural genocide. Many modern disputes such as the Gabcikovo dam project, have their roots in the former Hungarian government’s policy Magyarization which bred a psychology of ethnic superiority among Hungarians and condescension against anyone who wasn’t a pure Hungarian. Minority baiting is still, unfortunately, part of the political landscape in this region and until these past wrongs are address it will continue to be so. > > The failure of the Hungarian nation, and the Magyar people, to offer an public act of contrition, and the activities of current national extremists who glorify Magyarization, only exacerbates current conflicts. Only when the Hungarian people come face to face with the horrors of their past can they genuinely coexist with the numerous ethnicities they so cruelly tried to culturally exterminate. Dear Republic of Slovakia! You can apologize for shooting my German/Hungarian ancestors into a mass grave and bulldozing them while some of them were still alive. You can likewise apologize for forcing other Hungarians wear gree patches on their clothes… [Familiar?] Or how about the recent redesigning os Slovakia’s regional borders to prevent Hungarian majority where you still haven’t wiped us out? How about some apologies for that? And the… hm, shall we say “unique” interpretation of history in the above text and the text found in the “Magyarization” section of your website. Yes, I will accept the “public act of contrition”, thank you. With marginal amounts of respect: Gabor Lux ---
**Author:** ![GaWd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f08c70/32.png) [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/33 "2003-02-15T00:30:25Z")
The worst part is that many state governments in the U.S. endorsed forced sterilization of minorities, the mentally ill, Etc. in the 20’s and 30’s. Sad… :sad: Sam ---
**Author:** ![Kyla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/eada6e/32.png) [@Kyla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyla)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/34 "2003-02-15T05:03:30Z")
I just heard a report on this very study on the BBC World Service. Nice to know it’s getting some more publicity. I wrote a letter to the Slovakian ambassador to the US, who’s apparently a long-time human rights activist. Hm. I’ll make a note here if I receive a response. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/35 "2003-02-15T12:58:54Z")
Maybe… Sigh. Much as people want to stand and fight, maybe it’s time for the Romani to get _out_. Is there any refugee planning going on? I’m willing to contribute what I can. We say Never Again. And we should never forget who else was in there with us. The Romani died as well. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/36 "2003-02-15T14:11:12Z")
There’s no refugee planning going on. Most governments dislike their own Romani citizens\*, the last thing they’ll want is any more of 'em. As it is, Roma asylum seekers are very likely to be deported. The UK’s policy is that any Roma from the countries about to join the EU can be deported without appeal. That’s _because_ these countries are about to join the EU, therefore they are safe and do not violate human rights. Personally, what I feel is going to happen is that the Western European governments will apply pressure / throw money at these other countries so that they treat their Romani citizens better (or at least appear to) in the hope that they won’t decide to migrate to the West. What I fear may happen is that the policy of shoving us into ghettos will increase, as will a recent practice in Romania - where reports claim that Roma are not allowed to leave the country - in an attempt to hide the Roma away from prying eyes. It also wouldn’t suprise me if the British government sent more immigration officials to more foreign airports to stop more Romani people from travelling to countries that they don’t even need a visa to visit. Kal \*For instance, The Traveller Law Research Unit makes the claim that: > [@](#): > > As recently as 15 January 2002, an MP described Gypsies and Travellers, in a House of Commons debate, as ‘scum’ not entitled to human rights. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/37 "2003-02-15T15:30:33Z")
So. How can we make it happen? Anyone got any connections to a jewish interest group? Anyone care to open a Great Debate? I would, except that I do not know enough. If we can’t stop a war, maybe we can save a people. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/38 "2003-02-15T16:03:24Z")
Unfortunately it looks like an organisation called the “Romani-Jewish Alliance”, which was based in Washington state, no longer exists. I have found a policy paper from the UK based Institute for Jewish Policy Research, though. You may like to read it: [The Roma/Gypsies of Europe: a persecuted people](http://www.jpr.org.uk/Reports/CS%20Reports/PP_3_1996/main.htm) For personal reasons, it would be a cold day in hell before I would open a Great Debate about anything to do with Romani people. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/39 "2003-02-15T16:23:36Z")
Grrrrr. I’m going to an anti-war protest today with the NDP Quebec Section. I’m on the executive. I’ll ask them if I can forward a bunch of salient points to the NDP federal caucus. I’m sure many of them will be very interested to find out what the government has to say about this in the House. I’ll let you know if I get any feedback. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482/40 "2003-02-15T16:54:48Z")
[Great Debate](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=163307) started. Let’s do something. If we can. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forced-sterilization/153482.md?page=3)