# Forcing the unemployed to work **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 3, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309 "2011-08-03T11:30:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/61 "2011-08-05T04:01:51Z")
> [@gallan](#): > > You were actually required to show up somewhere?! Are there a lot of states that require this? Here in Oregon, you literally just log into a website once a week and answer about ten questions (e.g. Did you look for work? Were you offered work? Did you turn down any work that you were offered). That’s it. Then you get your money. Michigan was pretty strict about the looking for a job requirement. You had to provide a list of contacts you made with phone numbers ,so they could verify. But after awhile they finally figured out how rare jobs were and quit pushing that so hard. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/62 "2011-08-05T04:17:38Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Michigan was pretty strict about the looking for a job requirement. You had to provide a list of contacts you made with phone numbers ,so they could verify. But after awhile they finally figured out how rare jobs were and quit pushing that so hard. They ask all those questions on the CA claim form but only periodically do they have you write down the jobs you checked out and make you actually show up at the U. office to show it to them. I doubt that they will call anyone in even periodically now; I imagine there are far too many people to see and not enough time to see them all. ---
**Author:** ![gallan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ee59a6/32.png) [@gallan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/63 "2011-08-05T06:47:54Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > I doubt that they will call anyone in even periodically now; I imagine there are far too many people to see and not enough time to see them all. Sounds like they need more people at the unemployment office. I guess there IS work to be done. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 12:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/64 "2011-08-05T12:28:31Z")
I applied at my unemployment office. They said I was overqualified. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/65 "2011-08-05T14:53:27Z")
Then of course, those who are hiring will not look at someone who has been unemployed for awhile. That just exacerbates the problem. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/66 "2011-08-05T15:06:39Z")
Forcing the unemployed to work is a stupid premise. They re unemployed because there are not enough jobs. You could force them to clean up highway litter if that would make you feel better, but that is being done by people in the clutches of the police. Perhaps they should wait at stoplights and clean peoples windshields? ---
**Author:** ![salinqmind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3ec8ea/32.png) [@salinqmind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/salinqmind)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/67 "2011-08-05T15:59:27Z")
My friend has put in over 40 job applications in just over a month and hasn’t gotten one. single. nibble. Not ONE! From home health aide to cashier to mopping the floors at local hotels. She is stuck out in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do all day, living off her savings. She would LOVE some employment. What would you suggest? If putting out 40 job applications to businesses nets her squat, can she come to your house and clean/babysit/wipe your ass? Because she’s more than capable. She’d do it for gas money and maybe $20 a day. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/68 "2011-08-05T16:11:59Z")
I heard something very frustrating and common this week from a family member in charge of hiring at their job; they prefer to have temp after temp who do a half-assed job in the hopes of getting someone just good enough to be proficient instead of hiring someone w/ a degree or better experience. No matter how much I argued w/ her she says there’s no way the better educated or experienced person would stay and be paid the lower salary they offer, they’d always have a foot out the door and leave them in the lurch. She wouldn’t be swayed by my pointing out there’s nowhere out the door for them to go or else they wouldn’t be so willing to take the lesser job. Especially in their area there’s a glut of degreed people who’re unemployed and would love a dull office job. Then again I must consider this is a woman who eliminated all the people from South and Central America from their payroll so she could hire a number of women who’d just moved into the area from Pakistan and Bangladesh as they were even cheaper labor. ---
**Author:** ![gallan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ee59a6/32.png) [@gallan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/69 "2011-08-05T16:21:21Z")
> [@salinqmind](#): > > My friend has put in over 40 job applications in just over a month and hasn’t gotten one. single. nibble. Not ONE! From home health aide to cashier to mopping the floors at local hotels. She is stuck out in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do all day, living off her savings. She would LOVE some employment. What would you suggest? If putting out 40 job applications to businesses nets her squat, can she come to your house and clean/babysit/wipe your ass? Because she’s more than capable. She’d do it for gas money and maybe $20 a day. See, this is exactly the problem that this kind of program would solve! Instead of your friend having to do all the work of filling out a ton of applications in the hopes that maybe one or two would consider her, she’d be presented with a list of jobs that she could do right away. As in: “Here’s a job mopping floors. Show up tomorrow and you can mop the floors. If you suck at mopping the floor we’ll send you home and you’ll have to pick something else to do. If you’re great at mopping the floors, you can have the job full time.” ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/70 "2011-08-05T17:07:40Z")
> [@gallan](#): > > See, this is exactly the problem that this kind of program would solve! Instead of your friend having to do all the work of filling out a ton of applications in the hopes that maybe one or two would consider her, she’d be presented with a list of jobs that she could do right away. As in: > > “Here’s a job mopping floors. Show up tomorrow and you can mop the floors. If you suck at mopping the floor we’ll send you home and you’ll have to pick something else to do. If you’re great at mopping the floors, you can have the job full time.” They would replace the person who is mopping now. He then would become unemployed . Then he would be offered a job digging a ditch. The digger would become unemployed. What a great plan. ---
**Author:** ![gallan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ee59a6/32.png) [@gallan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/71 "2011-08-05T17:09:53Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > They would replace the person who is mopping now. He then would become unemployed . Then he would be offered a job digging a ditch. The digger would become unemployed. What a great plan. If they’re looking for someone to mop the floor, obviously they don’t have anyone doing it right now… ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/72 "2011-08-05T17:15:10Z")
> [@gallan](#): > > If they’re looking for someone to mop the floor, obviously they don’t have anyone doing it right now… Must be a pretty shitty place to work if they can’t even get a mopper to stay. ---
**Author:** ![gallan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ee59a6/32.png) [@gallan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/73 "2011-08-05T17:18:51Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Must be a pretty shitty place to work if they can’t even get a mopper to stay. So? Where is the rule that says everyone has a right to a fun job at an awesome place to work? In the real world there are a lot of jobs that suck and a lot of shitty employers. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/74 "2011-08-05T17:26:51Z")
> [@gallan](#): > > So? Where is the rule that says everyone has a right to a fun job at an awesome place to work? In the real world there are a lot of jobs that suck and a lot of shitty employers. So where are all these jobs no one wants when there is more than a 20 to 1 applicant to opening ratio for most jobs? Or are you going to tell the employers “hey, you’re not allowed to wait for the right candidate (however screwed up your criteria for “right” may be), you’re going to hire the recently unemployed help desk worker and LIKE it!” ---
**Author:** ![Mgalindo13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@Mgalindo13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mgalindo13)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/75 "2011-08-05T18:19:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > \*\*They obviously can’t conceive of _themselves_ being unemployed for an extended period, either. \*\* I \*have \*been out of work for an extended amount of time. > [@Broomstick](#): > > But I WOULD be one of the people directly affected by any “forcing the unemployed to work” so why isn’t my viewpoint considered relevant? Yes, your viewpoint is relevant. I don’t deny that at all, but my statement was not directed at you personally and I didn’t infer that you personally don’t “get out of the house.” Also, that statement was was not meant strictly literally. I can’t imagine anyone thought I assumed that those who are unemployed suddenly become agoraphobic. Whether it’s true of you personally or not, there are a significant number of unemployed people who do suffer emotional fatigue (and even depression) from being out of work for an extended amount of time and volunteer work can (for some people) be a good way to feel good about something. When I was out of work I didn’t want to go anywhere unless it was looking for a job. Mainly because I felt that a) all my efforts should be looking for work and b) if I do go out it’s going to cost money, even if it’s just putting gas in my car. > [@Broomstick](#): > > it’s no more ludicrous than thinking “oh, 8 to 16 hours of being compelled to do volunteer work would be good for the unemployed, it will get them out of the house!”. Because every unemployed person is exactly the same or something. One of the few plusses of being unemployed was having more time to spend with my family, which I found much more beneficial than I think forced 8-16 hours a week of unpaid labor on top of everything else I had to worry about. No I didn’t assume that every unemployed person was exactly the same. No one program, or change to one, will ever satisfy everyone. If anything, you are assuming that everyone is the same as you. Some people don’t have family close by to spend time with or be supportive and really could benefit from greater social interaction with others. What I considered was the greatest amount of good for the greatest number of people. I really don’t think that being asked to do 8 hours of volunteer work a week would have a huge negative impact on the vast majority. I know a number people who work full time jobs AND do 8+ hours of volunteer work a week. In fact there’s one guy at my work who uses his entire two weeks of vacation every year to do volunteer work out of the country. Am I saying everyone should do that? No. But let’s not act like eight hours is unreasonable amount of time to help others who might be in more need than ourselves. > [@Broomstick](#): > > \*\*But for darn sure almost none of these people will benefit from a day or two a week of working for no money at all. Way to exploit people when they’re down and out. So you see no benefit to volunteering to help others? It really seems that the basic theme here is that those who oppose “volunteer while you’re unemployed” are really just opposed volunteering. > [@gonzomax](#): > > Forcing the unemployed to work is a stupid premise. They re unemployed because there are not enough jobs. You could force them to clean up highway litter if that would make you feel better, but that is being done by people in the clutches of the police. > > Perhaps they should wait at stoplights and clean peoples windshields? There are plenty of non-profit organizations that are more than willing to accept any help they can get. ---
**Author:** ![gallan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ee59a6/32.png) [@gallan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/76 "2011-08-05T18:26:11Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > So where are all these jobs no one wants when there is more than a 20 to 1 applicant to opening ratio for most jobs? Or are you going to tell the employers “hey, you’re not allowed to wait for the right candidate (however screwed up your criteria for “right” may be), you’re going to hire the recently unemployed help desk worker and LIKE it!” I never said there were enough jobs for everyone, nor did I say employers couldn’t be selective about who mops their floors. Presumably, an employer would volunteer into this program. Maybe a large number of people show up and at that point, maybe they just conduct interviews if they want to and pick the best person and then send everyone else home. The gist of the plan is to require people to do what they’re supposed to be doing, which is looking for…and accepting…a job. People run around saying, “OH MY GOD THERE ARE NO JOBS AVAILABE!” as if every single company on the face of the Earth has stopped needing employees. Which, of course, is just silly. There are jobs available. Maybe not a job you want, but that’s a whole different thing than saying that there are no jobs at all. ---
**Author:** ![Mgalindo13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@Mgalindo13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mgalindo13)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/77 "2011-08-05T18:32:19Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Not particularly rooted in reality, but basic. > > I will grant that the person who applies to 200 companies will have a better chance of getting an interview than a person who only applies to five. I see no indication that applying to 400 or 600 companies gets one more interviews than 200. Once the economy has tanked in a region, employers stop looking for the best candidates and begin looking for the “perfect” candidate. I have had headhunters mention that companies are specifying every single type of software that they are seeking and including the specific release and there are enough candidates out there that they can wait for that “perfect” fit; they never even bother to interview the “close” candidates. (The “perfect” candidate might be an idiot or a slacker while fifteen candidates have better skills, but each be one release off on one or more languages or DBMSs, but in a buyer’s market, the HR folks are willing to ignore the “close” candidates, hire the “perfect” idiot and then throw him away if he fails and go look for a new “perfect” candidate.) It’s very rooted in reality. It’s a statistical certainty that applying for more jobs will increase your number of call backs and interviews. Though I agree that there will be a plateau as you start to apply for jobs that are less congruent with your education level & skills, it doesn’t mean that somehow applying for less jobs = more total interviews. I fully agree with you that there are significant problems with today’s hiring practices. I was a victim of that myself. There was one job in particular that I would have been great at, but they wanted someone who had held that specific job title previously (very odd). Ultimately I’m glad I didn’t get the job because something much better came along a few months later, but I was still bummed at the time. ---
**Author:** ![gallan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ee59a6/32.png) [@gallan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/78 "2011-08-05T18:45:30Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > But for darn sure almost none of these people will benefit from a day or two a week of working for no money at all. Way to exploit people when they’re down and out. The unemployed should not be forced to labor for free, they should be looking for employment. Did you even read the example I posted where I said that the person would earn whatever the hourly wage was for that job? Here it is again (simplified): Person A makes $165/week on unemployment. Job A pays $11/hour. 165 divided by 11 equals 15. So Person A could do Job A for 15 hours at $11/hour and still have 25 hours left in the standard work week to look for another job. Now, it takes time to find a job, so perhaps we cap the amount of hourly work to be done. Let’s say that the maximum you could work is 16 hours. That’s two 8-hour workdays, leaving you with three full workdays to look for a job. Example: Person B makes $528/week on unemployment. Job A pays $11/hour. 528 divided by 11 equals 48. But the time is capped at 16. So that person makes $11/hour for 16 hours ($176) and gets an additional $352 to spend 24 hours looking for a full-time job. How exactly is that forcing them to labor for free? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/79 "2011-08-05T18:48:06Z")
> [@gallan](#): > > I never said there were enough jobs for everyone, nor did I say employers couldn’t be selective about who mops their floors. Presumably, an employer would volunteer into this program. Maybe a large number of people show up and at that point, maybe they just conduct interviews if they want to and pick the best person and then send everyone else home. > > The gist of the plan is to require people to do what they’re supposed to be doing, which is looking for…and accepting…a job. People run around saying, “OH MY GOD THERE ARE NO JOBS AVAILABE!” as if every single company on the face of the Earth has stopped needing employees. Which, of course, is just silly. There are jobs available. Maybe not a job you want, but that’s a whole different thing than saying that there are no jobs at all. There are certainly jobs available, but if you’re not qualified to do them or you’re overqualified, or if they think you’re too old, too young, too whatever, you probably won’t be hired. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/80 "2011-08-05T18:52:19Z")
> [@gallan](#): > > Did you even read the example I posted where I said that the person would earn whatever the hourly wage was for that job? Here it is again (simplified): > > Person A makes $165/week on unemployment. Job A pays $11/hour. 165 divided by 11 equals 15. So Person A could do Job A for 15 hours at $11/hour and still have 25 hours left in the standard work week to look for another job. > > Now, it takes time to find a job, so perhaps we cap the amount of hourly work to be done. Let’s say that the maximum you could work is 16 hours. That’s two 8-hour workdays, leaving you with three full workdays to look for a job. Example: > > Person B makes $528/week on unemployment. Job A pays $11/hour. 528 divided by 11 equals 48. But the time is capped at 16. So that person makes $11/hour for 16 hours ($176) and gets an additional $352 to spend 24 hours looking for a full-time job. > > How exactly is that forcing them to labor for free? Unemployment pay isn’t calculated that way, at least in CA. If you make under $100 in a week, they ignore the first $25, subtract whatever is left and pay you the difference. If it is $101 or more, the first 25% does not count, and then they perform the same process and pay the difference. Who makes $528 a week on unemployment? The max here is $450.00. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309.md?page=5)