# Forcing the unemployed to work **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 3, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309 "2011-08-03T11:30:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![gallan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ee59a6/32.png) [@gallan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/81 "2011-08-05T18:58:03Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > Unemployment pay isn’t calculated that way, at least in CA. If you make under $100 in a week, they ignore the first $25, subtract whatever is left and pay you the difference. If it is $101 or more, the first 25% does not count, and then they perform the same process and pay the difference. > Who makes $528 a week on unemployment? The max here is $450.00. When I was on unemployment I made $470/week after taxes. ---
**Author:** ![Mgalindo13](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ea5d25/32.png) [@Mgalindo13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mgalindo13)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/82 "2011-08-05T19:04:31Z")
> [@gallan](#): > > This thread got me thinking. > > [Economic woes solving plan: Government hires everyone - Great Debates - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=617306) > > Couldn’t we _require_ people who are collecting unemployment to work? They’re already getting unemployment, right? So why not just make their weekly unemployment payment conditional upon doing some work assigned to them (preferably work that actually needs to get done). The assigned work would need to closely match their skill set, or be “general labor” that most anyone could do. The work would be scaled so that weekly payment divided by hours worked would be _at least_ minimum wage. > > If they refuse, or do anything that would ordinarily get someone fired in that position, they don’t get their unemployment check (and thus would no longer be required to perform that work). This could potentially increase productivity in necessary areas. It would also cost no more money than what we’re paying now, since they would be getting the same amount they get currently. And it would provide an additional incentive for people to get out and look for a “real” job. > > We could even create sort of a menu system for employers, whereby the work performance of the unemployed is made public while they’re performing their assigned duties. So Company X is looking for a call center employee, they look and see that Joe Smith is in their area and performs his DMV call center duties very well, and then offer him a permanent job at their company. If Joe refuses the job, he loses his unemployment (because, as we all know, unemployment payments are conditional upon actually looking for work, and accepting job offers). You should check out [this article](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/us/28county.html) in the NYT about a county in TN that used welfare from the stimulus to create jobs. It’s an interesting concept, offer local businesses free labor in order to expand and grow. I read a follow up to the article that at the end of the program they had cut unemployment in the county from 25% down to 14% and even after the program ended 25% of workers were hired on permanently. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/83 "2011-08-05T21:22:24Z")
> [@Mgalindo13](#): > > Whether it’s true of you personally or not, there are a significant number of unemployed people who do suffer emotional fatigue (and even depression) from being out of work for an extended amount of time and volunteer work can (for some people) be a good way to feel good about something. But what’s stopping them from _volunteering_ on their own? And why make it _mandatory_ to do this (which actually makes it NON-voluntary) for every unemployed person, which is the premise? > [@](#): > > Some people don’t have family close by to spend time with or be supportive and really could benefit from greater social interaction with others. So…what’s stopping them from doing that? And why is the assumption that making unpaid works hours mandatory is going to cure that? > [@](#): > > I really don’t think that being asked to do 8 hours of volunteer work a week would have a huge negative impact on the vast majority. If you HAVE TO work those unpaid hours _then it is no longer VOLUNTEER work!_ Is that really such a hard concept? What the unemployed need is PAYING work, a job, a WAGE OR SALARY. They don’t need to be forced to _work for free_. > [@](#): > > I know a number people who work full time jobs AND do 8+ hours of volunteer work a week. Yes, but they CHOOSE to do that. No one is saying “either you work 8 hours unpaid or we cut your money off.” That’s the difference. If the unemployed are required to do work _then they should be paid_. Anything else is exploitation and involuntary labor because _if the work is mandatory it’s NOT volunteer!_ Let me make this perfectly clear - I am TOTALLY in favor of the unemployed volunteering _but it has to be THEIR choice._ If it becomes a _requirement_ it’s NOT volunteer. > [@](#): > > But let’s not act like eight hours is unreasonable amount of time to help others who might be in more need than ourselves. The unemployed are the ones in need - they’re in need of a _paying job_, not a requirement to do unpaid work for someone else. > [@](#): > > So you see no benefit to volunteering to help others? I don’t see something as “volunteer” when you are _required_ to do it. > [@](#): > > It really seems that the basic theme here is that those who oppose “volunteer while you’re unemployed” are really just opposed volunteering. No, I’m opposed \*forcing \*the unemployed to _work for free_ when their greatest need is _a paying job._ Calling coerced labor “volunteer” doesn’t make it volunteer, nor does it make it OK. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/84 "2011-08-05T21:24:35Z")
> [@gallan](#): > > The gist of the plan is to require people to do what they’re supposed to be doing, which is looking for…and accepting…a job. People run around saying, “OH MY GOD THERE ARE NO JOBS AVAILABE!” as if every single company on the face of the Earth has stopped needing employees. Which, of course, is just silly. There are jobs available. Maybe not a job you want, but that’s a whole different thing than saying that there are no jobs at all. The problem is not a complete lack of jobs, rather, it’s that there are 6 people looking for work for every available job, which means 5/6 of those currently unemployed aren’t going to land a job. That’s why we need more jobs, and they need to be paying jobs. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/85 "2011-08-05T21:29:33Z")
> [@gallan](#): > > Did you even read the example I posted where I said that the person would earn whatever the hourly wage was for that job? I saw were you were talking about paying them for the work, and I have no problem with that. I think that would be great because actually earning some money a couple days a week can be an enormous morale boost while you’re looking for better work, as opposed to being completely unemployed. However, _other_ posters, such as **Mgalindo13** , ARE talking about making UNpaid labor mandatory for the unemployed. That is what I am objecting to. ---
**Author:** ![gallan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ee59a6/32.png) [@gallan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallan)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/86 "2011-08-05T21:31:04Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > That’s why we need more jobs, and they need to be paying jobs. Nobody is advocating for making them work for free. ETA: Nevermind. Just saw your last post. Yes, I object to unpaid work. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2011, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/87 "2011-08-05T22:48:07Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Forcing the unemployed to work is a stupid premise. They re unemployed because there are not enough jobs. Lets be fair here. If they remain unemployed in a region it is either by reasons of conduct they are unemployable or they only possess skills currently unnecessary. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/88 "2011-08-06T00:05:45Z")
> [@gallan](#): > > When I was on unemployment I made $470/week after taxes. In which state? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/89 "2011-08-06T01:52:17Z")
> [@gallan](#): > > When I was on unemployment I made $470/week after taxes. The maximum one can make weekly on unemp. in CA is $450.00, based on highest quarter earnings of 11,674.01 and up. Most receive quite a bit less. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/90 "2011-08-06T02:30:37Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Lets be fair here. If they remain unemployed in a region it is either by reasons of conduct they are unemployable or they only possess skills currently unnecessary. You wouldn’t happen to have anything remotely resembling reputable support for that assertion, would you? (Or did I just get whooshed?) ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/91 "2011-08-06T07:57:32Z")
> [@Mgalindo13](#): > > It’s very rooted in reality. It’s a statistical certainty that applying for more jobs will increase your number of call backs and interviews. Though I agree that there will be a plateau as you start to apply for jobs that are less congruent with your education level & skills, it doesn’t mean that somehow applying for less jobs = more total interviews. If you randomly strew resumes to jobs found on job boards, quite true. Of, on the other hand, the five are carefully chosen and researched, and you get to a hiring manager through social or industry connections, then not true. You can’t do a good job applying to 200 openings; you can applying to five. I’m just not making this up. I’m pretty visible in my field, and you’d think people looking for jobs in it would email me. Almost never happens. One guy I was on a committee with did call me up; I was in the process of helping another manager define a job - this guy got hired almost immediately. I’ve actually got an opening for a new MS or PhD - I trust all such graduates are getting flooded with offers, because I am going to have to call up my faculty friends again to look for someone. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/92 "2011-08-06T09:06:06Z")
During the Great Depression my dad had a lot of trouble finding work in Memphis. He finally volunteered to work for a place for free. He told them that if he was worth paying at the end of the week, then pay him. If not, he would move on. He was paid and hired. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2011, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/93 "2011-08-06T10:54:36Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’m just not making this up. I’m pretty visible in my field, and you’d think people looking for jobs in it would email me. Almost never happens. One guy I was on a committee with did call me up; I was in the process of helping another manager define a job - this guy got hired almost immediately. I’ve actually got an opening for a new MS or PhD - I trust all such graduates are getting flooded with offers, because I am going to have to call up my faculty friends again to look for someone. Sorry for the hijack, but what was your field again? Something to do with CS? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/94 "2011-08-07T01:34:59Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You wouldn’t happen to have anything remotely resembling reputable support for that assertion, would you? (Or did I just get whooshed?) :dubious: No, you aren’t being whooshed. But sounds like you want me to prove there isn’t a trove of unfilled jobs out there that are being denied the public simply out of spite. I had no idea we’ve gotten to the point on the Dope where the basic law of supply and demand needs a cite. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/95 "2011-08-07T01:58:41Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Lets be fair here. If they remain unemployed in a region it is either by reasons of conduct they are unemployable or they only possess skills currently unnecessary. That is being fair/ That is being wrong. Just ask unemployed board members here how many applications they have filled out. While you are at it, what skills should they all get? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/96 "2011-08-07T02:36:43Z")
If there are ten jobs for carpenters and twenty unemployed carpenters only half of them are getting jobs. It has nothing to do with conduct, nor are their skills unnecessary - there is just more labor than demand. It’s that simple. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/97 "2011-08-07T02:42:41Z")
If there are ten jobs for carpenters and twenty unemployed carpenters only half of them are getting jobs. It has nothing to do with conduct, nor are their skills unnecessary - there is just more labor than demand. It’s that simple. You just have to consider that the economy added 117,000 jobs last month (supposedly) but there are 14 million completely unemployed people looking for work. That’s roughly 120 job seekers for every available job. Is the idea that 119 out of 120 workers in the US either bad conduct problems or don’t have marketable skills really supportable? When you add in all the people who are somewhat employed but not employed fulltime even though they want to be, that becomes 427 jobseekers for every job opening. (I’m talking about the U6 number here, currently about 17% or nearly 1 in 6 Americans. That works out to about 50 million) The notion that all those people are somehow lazy, badly behaving, or don’t have marketable skills is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/98 "2011-08-07T02:42:51Z")
Perhaps you would feel happier if the unemployed sold their organs to those who have medical coverage. Then they would be useful citizens and not such a drain on you . They just have no reason to live. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/99 "2011-08-07T02:50:44Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > That is being fair/ That is being wrong. Just ask unemployed board members here how many applications they have filled out. > **While you are at it, what skills should they all get?** And in the year or two you’re acquiring new skills, the job market changes. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/100 "2011-08-07T02:54:52Z")
Meanwhile, you now have debt on top of unemployment because of the loans you took out to complete the training that now, two years later, is no longer useful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309.md?page=6)