# Forcing the unemployed to work **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 3, 2011, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309 "2011-08-03T11:30:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/101 "2011-08-07T02:57:19Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > What gonzo said. > > Is it me or is there a spate of posts in favour of involuntary servitude recently? [Because slavery gets shit done.](http://www.tshirthell.com/funny-shirts/slavery-gets-shit-done/) ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/102 "2011-08-07T04:26:20Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Perhaps you would feel happier if the unemployed sold their organs to those who have medical coverage. Then they would be useful citizens and not such a drain on you . They just have no reason to live. Ah, another “Modest Proposal.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/103 "2011-08-07T04:26:21Z")
Because I have a disabled child I’m making roughly Minimum Wage for the next couple weeks. After that, I’m a Greeter at Walmart. Three years ago I was earning 4.5 times as much. Which incarnation do you want to be paying into the tax rolls? ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/104 "2011-08-07T04:29:07Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Here’s my problem with this–of the proportion of people on unemployment, how many of them are in a situation where that would help them? > > Case in point–if I were laid off today, my weekly would be closer to $600 than $165. Most of the people I know who are unemployed right now are closer to the median of those two numbers. Litter patrol isn’t very helpful to unemployed engineers. > snip. I’d like to know which states are paying $500 to $600 per week for unemployment benefits. It must vary quite a bit across the country, because, as I’ve mentioned, the max in CA is $450.00. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/105 "2011-08-07T04:37:01Z")
Perhaps Soylent Unemployed would be right for those who judge those who lose their jobs so badly… There must be some good that can come from them. I have a job. So let me explain what is wrong about you and how I, an employed person, can teach you. I am working, you must have done something wrong. If you can not find a job, let me give you my valuable advice ,that comes from me, an employed person. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/106 "2011-08-07T04:40:58Z")
ETA: Fuck those who want a return of debtors prison, stripping oakum, and making littluns out of bigguns. I spend my days online looking for work or being a freelancer for less than I made when I had a regular job. As lives go it blows chunks because I am balancing “hopeless optimism” against “well-based pessimism,” along with a dose of, “I don’t think we realized how old you were.” ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/107 "2011-08-07T04:48:58Z")
ALSO, as degrading as pre-employment drug tests can be, “Top this off and leave it in the bathroom” blows the chain of custody all to hell. It will never stand up in court, unless you find me clean. Which I am. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/108 "2011-08-07T06:00:36Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > ALSO, as degrading as pre-employment drug tests can be, “Top this off and leave it in the bathroom” blows the chain of custody all to hell. It will never stand up in court, unless you find me clean. Which I am. Just saying. Assuming that this is a private company drug test, you wouldn’t go to court on a failure - you’d just never get an interview. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/109 "2011-08-07T14:42:41Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > I’d like to know which states are paying $500 to $600 per week for unemployment benefits. It must vary quite a bit across the country, because, as I’ve mentioned, the max in CA is $450.00. Pennsylvania unemployment benefits in the highest tier: [http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=643903&mode=2](http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=643903&mode=2) ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/110 "2011-08-07T17:24:24Z")
Let’s just criminalize being unemployed and then bring back the chain gangs. (Joke) Believe it or not, when I first moved to Florida in 1966, chain gangs were still in use, minus the chains. Cops on horseback and prisoners cleaning ditches. I honestly think we’re not far from returning to that system now; how many choices are left? If I had to swing a scythe for eight hours a day for less than minimum wage it would sure motivate me to find a better job; how about you? Of course, if there were better jobs to be found, who would willingly swing that scythe? Forcing people to work for their unemployment checks is about as stupid an idea as claiming Michelle Bachmann would make a good president. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/111 "2011-08-07T18:00:04Z")
Just shoot the unemployed. That would give a job to marksmen, bullet and gun manufacturers. Another right wing win/win. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/112 "2011-08-07T19:19:24Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > Pennsylvania unemployment benefits in the highest tier: [http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=643903&mode=2](http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt?open=514&objID=643903&mode=2) Well, I’m living on the wrong side of the country then. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/113 "2011-08-07T19:21:44Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > Let’s just criminalize being unemployed and then bring back the chain gangs. (Joke) Believe it or not, when I first moved to Florida in 1966, chain gangs were still in use, minus the chains. Cops on horseback and prisoners cleaning ditches. I honestly think we’re not far from returning to that system now; how many choices are left? If I had to swing a scythe for eight hours a day for less than minimum wage it would sure motivate me to find a better job; how about you? Of course, if there were better jobs to be found, who would willingly swing that scythe? Forcing people to work for their unemployment checks is about as stupid an idea as claiming Michelle Bachmann would make a good president. But…but…but Bachmann says that God called her to run for office! It must be true, because she says so. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/114 "2011-08-07T19:29:31Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I honestly think we’re not far from returning to that system now; how many choices are left? If I had to swing a scythe for eight hours a day for less than minimum wage it would sure motivate me to find a better job; how about you? But what if, no matter how motivated you were, there _weren’t_ any better jobs to go to? That’s the stumbling block I see a lot of people trip over again and again - they assume that there are 15 million unemployed people, and 35 million underemployed people, because those people are somehow ALL unmotivated, lazy, or whatever. That is not the case. The problem is that we have around 50 million people in this country who either have no job at all, or don’t have a good enough job (lack of hours, pay, whatever) because _there are not ENOUGH jobs_. Pointing to a few sectors that need specialized workers doesn’t help - most workers aren’t specialized in that area, and even if there were, there would still be more people needing either any work at all, or better work than they have now than there would be openings in those sectors. The fundamental problem really is _there are not enough jobs_ right now. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/115 "2011-08-07T22:05:21Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > But what if, no matter how motivated you were, there _weren’t_ any better jobs to go to? > > That’s the stumbling block I see a lot of people trip over again and again - they assume that there are 15 million unemployed people, and 35 million underemployed people, because those people are somehow ALL unmotivated, lazy, or whatever. That is not the case. The problem is that we have around 50 million people in this country who either have no job at all, or don’t have a good enough job (lack of hours, pay, whatever) because _there are not ENOUGH jobs_. Pointing to a few sectors that need specialized workers doesn’t help - most workers aren’t specialized in that area, and even if there were, there would still be more people needing either any work at all, or better work than they have now than there would be openings in those sectors. > > The fundamental problem really is _there are not enough jobs_ right now. Uh, my point was that there aint no damn jobs therefore talking about forcing unemployed people to work for their benefits is pretty damn stupid. Work at what? ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/116 "2011-08-07T22:10:17Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > But…but…but Bachmann says that God called her to run for office! It must be true, because she says so. 😉 I think GW Bush made the same claim, didn’t he? Hell, it might be true. Maybe God really does hate the USA. Now, in spite of all the evidence that God ain’t listening, Rick Perry is praying for God’s help; he should have tried praying for good grades when he was in school. Or brains; he should have asked for brains; even a brain starved Zombie would spit Perry’s out after one bite. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/117 "2011-08-07T22:16:39Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I think GW Bush made the same claim, didn’t he? Hell, it might be true. Maybe God really does hate the USA. Now, in spite of all the evidence that God ain’t listening, Rick Perry is praying for God’s help; he should have tried praying for good grades when he was in school. Or brains; he should have asked for brains; even a brain starved Zombie would spit Perry’s out after one bite. You kidding me. His brain is practically unused. ---
**Author:** ![OneMissedPost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8e7dd6/32.png) [@OneMissedPost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneMissedPost)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2011, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/118 "2011-08-07T22:35:24Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > nm…I don’t care. Then why even bother posting under this thread since you made it blatantly clear that you “don’t care.” That is not contributing to the debate at all. > [@Sitnam](#): > > Lets be fair here. If they remain unemployed in a region it is either by reasons of conduct they are unemployable or they only possess skills currently unnecessary. Tell that to people that do possess skills currently necessary who are having a difficult time finding a job. There are many people intelligent, well-qualified people sending out numerous applications who have had no luck finding jobs. > [@Sitnam](#): > > :dubious: No, you aren’t being whooshed. But sounds like you want me to prove there isn’t a trove of unfilled jobs out there that are being denied the public simply out of spite. > > I had no idea we’ve gotten to the point on the Dope where the basic law of supply and demand needs a cite. You have no idea how supply and demand works. The point that many posters are making is that there is no supply and there is huge demand for a job. Many companies are going out of business because of the economy, which makes people unemployed. The jobs are eliminated so they need to find new jobs; however, the new jobs are unavailable. The problem is also that many people possess the same skills needed for the same job. It is not a simple matter of not possessing the skills needed for the job. You have many people who possess the same skills needed for jobs, but there are little to no jobs available. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/119 "2011-08-08T01:11:42Z")
> [@OneMissedPost](#): > > Then why even bother posting under this thread since you made it blatantly clear that you “don’t care.” That is not contributing to the debate at all. > > Tell that to people that do possess skills currently necessary who are having a difficult time finding a job. There are many people intelligent, well-qualified people sending out numerous applications who have had no luck finding jobs. > > You have no idea how supply and demand works. The point that many posters are making is that there is no supply and there is huge demand for a job. Many companies are going out of business because of the economy, which makes people unemployed. The jobs are eliminated so they need to find new jobs; however, the new jobs are unavailable. The problem is also that many people possess the same skills needed for the same job. It is not a simple matter of not possessing the skills needed for the job. You have many people who possess the same skills needed for jobs, but there are little to no jobs available. Agreed on all points. The OP implies very strongly that the unemployed, in general, are idle most of the day and need something to do just to keep them busy. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2011, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309/120 "2011-08-08T05:12:25Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You kidding me. His brain is practically unused. I would bet on practically non-existent; one can’t use what one doesn’t have. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forcing-the-unemployed-to-work/591309.md?page=7)