# Ford must pay 1.7 BILLION in rollover lawsuit **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 23, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180 "2022-08-23T17:50:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/1 "2022-08-23T17:50:54Z")
The verdict is in. The family of a couple who were killed when their Ford F 250 rolled over has been awarded 1.7 billion dollars in damages. . The plaintiffs’ lawyer presented evidence from 80 similar crashes. There are numerous similar lawsuits in court also, some asking for a similar amount. > **[Georgia jury awards $1.7 billion in Ford F-250 truck crash](https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/georgia-jury-awards-1-7-billion-in-ford-truck-crash-case/ar-AA10VXTE)** > > Ford says it plans to appeal a $1.7 billion verdict against the automaker after a pickup truck crash claimed the lives of a Georgia couple. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/2 "2022-08-23T17:58:45Z")
I wonder if it’ll be upheld. [This site](https://www.schollelaw.com/blog/what-qualifies-for-punitive-damages-in-georgia) says that product liability punitive damages don’t have a cap in Georgia, but the plaintiffs only get 25% and the rest goes to the state. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/3 "2022-08-23T18:08:58Z")
Is the roof of the truck weaker than it should be? Is it weaker than those of similar trucks from other manufacturers? Are there industry standards for how strong vehicle roofs should be? Of course, I don’t need to know the answers to these questions because I’m not on the jury, or otherwise involved in this case. But without those answers, I don’t have an informed opinion. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/4 "2022-08-23T18:27:06Z")
Good points. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/5 "2022-08-23T18:49:40Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > the plaintiffs only get 25% and the rest goes to the state. I don’t imagine that matters much to Ford. Seems like they would have been better off facing a class action suit, instead of a bunch of individual ones. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/6 "2022-08-23T19:02:04Z")
I wonder how they came up with that figure. I doubt the couple over the length of their lives would have earned that much to provide for their kids. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/7 "2022-08-23T19:04:56Z")
It’s punitive, not compensatory. They got $24 million in compensatory damages. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/8 "2022-08-23T19:34:45Z")
Yeah - that was kinda mind-blowing when I read it, but I didn’t delve deeper to try to figure out any rationale. Are trucks generally assumed to have strong roofs (roll bars?) to protect in roll overs? My initial reaction was to wonder what occurred to cause the truck to roll over. And I wonder about those supposed 80 similar cases. Would be interesting to see what the Ford internal docs said, about the costs to provide greater protection, and the reasons not to do so. I’m not generally a defender of large corporations nor a proponent of tort verdict caps, but this one definitely caught my eye. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/9 "2022-08-23T19:40:24Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’m not generally a defender of large corporations nor a proponent of tort verdict caps, but this one definitely caught my eye. Have no fear, the trial court or appellate courts will almost certainly reduce the punitive award. > **[Is 2:1 The New 1:1?](https://www.punitivedamagesblog.com/2018/07/is-21-the-new-11/)** > > Over the years, we have reported on many cases in which courts adhered to the Supreme Court’s guidance in State Farm (and Exxon Shipping Co. v. Baker) ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/10 "2022-08-23T19:56:54Z")
I see two opposing views on these kinds of awards. One is that awarding such outrageous amounts is ultimately bad for everyone, because Ford is sure as hell going to get it back, either by raising prices or reducing costs and quality, or both. But the other point to keep in mind is that in another such case – also involving Ford – it was found that they knew the Pinto was dangerously vulnerable to fuel tank fires in any significant crash, but according to internal company documents, made the conscious decision that settling lawsuits for injuries and deaths would be cheaper than adding protective measures to the car. Big lawsuit settlements change the calculus of those kinds of morbid assessments. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/11 "2022-08-23T21:16:37Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > awarding such outrageous amounts is ultimately bad for everyone, because Ford is sure as hell going to get it back, either by raising prices or reducing costs and quality, or both. They can’t do that with impunity, they have to compete in both price and quality. If they have to do very much of that stuff to get back the award amount, they will fall too far behind to be able to recover. The jury seemed to buy the plaintiff’s assertion that Ford knowingly used inferior construction on the truck roofs for the sake of profit; I don’t know if that’s true or not. Even if true, I think the amount is excessive, especially if Ford would have to come up with that amount all at once. It’s difficult to find the right balance. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/12 "2022-08-23T21:37:30Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > They can’t do that with impunity, they have to compete in both price and quality. If they have to do very much of that stuff to get back the award amount, they will fall too far behind to be able to recover. At which point they can do a GM, and demand a government bailout – which both GM and Chrysler successfully did. Remember the old adage from the 50s: “What’s good for GM is good for America”? Turns out, that’s a bit of a misquote, but only a bit. What was actually said was essentially the same thing. In 1953, Eisenhower nominated the then-president of GM, Charles Wilson, for Secretary of Defense. Wilson insisted on holding on to his large block of GM stock, and was asked what he would do in the event of a conflict of interest between the interests of his stock and of GM, and the interests of the United States. His response: > I cannot conceive of [a conflict of interest] because for years I thought what was good for our country was good for General Motors, and vice versa. The difference did not exist. Our company is too big. It goes with the welfare of the country. Our contribution to the Nation is quite considerable. It may have been the first time that the now-familiar mantra of “too big to fail” was articulated. And that’s the really insidious thing about gigantic awards against gigantic companies. We end up paying for it one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 23, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/13 "2022-08-23T21:42:43Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Even if true, I think the amount is excessive, especially if Ford would have to come up with that amount all at once. It’s difficult to find the right balance. I think they can find the money if they have to. (but they won’t, the amount will be reduced to around $100 million) > **[Ford to Lead America’s Shift to Electric Vehicles with New Mega Campus in...](https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2021/09/27/ford-to-lead-americas-shift-to-electric-vehicles.html)** > > Ford to bring electric zero-emission vehicles at scale to American customers with the largest, most advanced, most efficient auto production complex in its 118-year history. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/14 "2022-08-24T01:09:25Z")
> [@AlsoNamedBort](#): > > It’s punitive, not compensatory. They got $24 million in compensatory damages. Even that seems high. Would they have reasonably made that much money in the rest of their lifetimes? ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/15 "2022-08-24T02:00:05Z")
Eh, What’s a BILLION between Friends, and lawyers? $1.98 ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2022, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/16 "2022-08-24T02:43:43Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Even that seems high. Would they have reasonably made that much money in the rest of their lifetimes? It’s not just economic loss. Could be pre death pain and suffering or other general damages ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/17 "2022-08-29T15:55:31Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > Are trucks generally assumed to have strong roofs (roll bars?) to protect in roll overs? There may well be certain industry standards regarding roof strength, which this truck did not meet. A rather famous “frivolous” lawsuit, from decades ago, involved the death of someone who was killed when a horse fell on her car - a Ford Pinto, IIRC (you can’t make that up!). As absurd as it sounds - I mean, who on earth would consider a horse falling on a car a reasonable risk to worry about - the premise of the lawsuit wound up being that there were certain standards of roof strength that cars were required to have - and a roof that met those standards would have withstood the horse’s weight. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/18 "2022-08-29T17:10:40Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > …premise of the lawsuit wound up being that there were certain standards of roof strength that cars were required to have - and a roof that met those standards would have withstood the horse’s weight. I might be way off base, but I thought I recalled hearing that trucks’ roofs are significantly weaker than cars in rollovers. I can understand why someone might think a struck’s strong frame extends to the roof, but some (likely faulty) memory tells me that isn’t the case. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/19 "2022-08-29T17:46:09Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I might be way off base, but I thought I recalled hearing that trucks’ roofs are significantly weaker than cars in rollovers You may well be right - I have no idea what the standards are. My point being, if it’s supposed to withstand x pounds, and the truck weighs less than x pounds, then it should withstand a rollover. If it is legally required to withstand z pounds, which is less than the weight of the truck, then it’s not expected to withstand a rollover. ---
**Author:** ![mixdenny](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mixdenny/32/2962_2.png) [@mixdenny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mixdenny)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2022, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-must-pay-1-7-billion-in-rollover-lawsuit/970180/20 "2022-08-29T18:09:02Z")
The roof needs to be much stronger then just the weight of the vehicle. A rollover crash would usually involve sliding in some direction. When I was racing the roll bars/cages had to meet published standards. That would include forces against the top of the cage in the forward, backwards and side directions. Those forces would be expressed as x.x times the weight of the vehicle, perhaps as much as 3.0 in the backwards direction. Plus the top force at the same time.