# "Ford Talks With Gay Leaders" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 13, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493 "2005-12-13T22:11:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/41 "2005-12-14T14:13:24Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > I read the part I bolded as the National Gay and Lesbian Track Team. I read it as National Gay and Clever Pygmy Track Team. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/42 "2005-12-14T18:28:22Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > As far as I know these gay organizations exist simply to eliminate invidious discrimination against homosexuals. So I think Otto got it right to say that they represent every “queer that cares” about being treated equally. > > Now as far as people saying “hey, I didn’t elect them!” Well, tough shit. There are lots of leaders out there who don’t speak for everyone they represent. Hell, even with our **elected** representatives maybe only 25% of those eligible to vote cast a vote for any given candidate. They’re still our leaders. > > You know what, I’m willing to bet that the work done by the HRC is supported by a solid majority of homosexuals. What do we need here to satisfy you as to the “leader” label, a goddamned referendum? You’d still find a reason to bitch even then. Disagreements aside, you make some good points. And thank you for putting at least a reasonable interpretation to “queers that care”. An example of a disagreement: I don’t think a majority of gays knows what HRC really stands for and what their activities are. I also disagree that HRC exists simply to eliminate discrimination against homosexuals. But I won’t argue these points here, as that would be a monumental hijack. And I do recognize that my views (gay libertarian) are decidedly in the minority. The difference, however, between elected leaders whom I don’t support, and these so-called gay leaders, is that everyone understands that every elected official has opposition. Few seem to understand that there is any dissent in the gay community against the views and some actions of HRC, NGTLF and others of their ultra-liberal ilk. I have no particular knowledge of Lambda Legal, so I am not including them. Anyway, this is the sum of my point in commenting in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/43 "2005-12-14T18:37:54Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > As far as I know these gay organizations exist simply to eliminate invidious discrimination against homosexuals. So I think Otto got it right to say that they represent every “queer that cares” about being treated equally. > > Now as far as people saying “hey, I didn’t elect them!” Well, tough shit. There are lots of leaders out there who don’t speak for everyone they represent. Hell, even with our **elected** representatives maybe only 25% of those eligible to vote cast a vote for any given candidate. They’re still our leaders. > > You know what, I’m willing to bet that the work done by the HRC is supported by a solid majority of homosexuals. What do we need here to satisfy you as to the “leader” label, a goddamned referendum? You’d still find a reason to bitch even then. I didn’t vote for them, but then who cares. They have the contacts, financial backing, and skills to address things I care about. So, who cares if they are “representatives” or “leaders” or “spokesmen” or whatever they are? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/44 "2005-12-14T19:07:25Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > I wonder who the heterosexual leaders are, and what our agenda is? My agenda doesn’t go much beyond “trying to get a date.” ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/45 "2005-12-14T20:04:52Z")
Listen to the warning in **pizzabrat’s** OP, **Otto**. You feel fine with the press calling the fine folk at HRC your leaders but just you wait. It won’t be long before they’ll be labeling Alexis Arquette a spokesman and asking him about the gay stance on the situation in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/46 "2005-12-15T00:16:25Z")
[Ford Caves](http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/12/ap-story-on-ford-we-won.html) [Ford to advertise Jaguar, Land Rover in gay publications](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051214/pl_nm/autos_ford_ads_dc_1) [Ford will again advertise in gay publications](http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/12/14/ford.boycott.ap.ap/) ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/47 "2005-12-15T00:25:31Z")
> [@Roderick Femm](#): > > Is this the best you can do to win an argument? Are we having an argument? I thought you were pontificating like an ass and I was making fun of you. > [@Biggirl](#): > > Listen to the warning in pizzabrat’s OP, Otto. You feel fine with the press calling the fine folk at HRC your leaders but just you wait. It won’t be long before they’ll be labeling Alexis Arquette a spokesman and asking him about the gay stance on the situation in Iraq. Alexis Arquette won’t be qualified to be a spokes-[man](http://worldofwonder.net/archives/2004/may/24/at_least_he_wont_have_to_change_his_name.wow) for anything any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/48 "2005-12-15T00:33:24Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Ford Caves](http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/12/ap-story-on-ford-we-won.html) > [Ford to advertise Jaguar, Land Rover in gay publications](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051214/pl_nm/autos_ford_ads_dc_1) > [Ford will again advertise in gay publications](http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/12/14/ford.boycott.ap.ap/) Good for Ford! I’m still not buying any of their cars, though. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/49 "2005-12-15T01:08:18Z")
> [@Shirley Ujest](#): > > Dear Ford Motor Company, > > If you don’t resume your advertising campaign marketing to gays, transgendered and lesbians, I will take my heterosexual spending dollar over to a car company who isn’t afraid to market to queers, dykes and queens. > > The same said for Asian, African, Vertically Challenged People, Morbidly Overweight People and any other demographic that is missing from Ad campaigns > > Sincerely, > Shirley Ujest See, I was thinking of going the complete other way "Dear Ford Motor Company, Even though I can no longer see your ads in the magazines I like to read, I still see them on television, hear them on radio, and see large signs by the freeway. Please rectify this immediately, or I shall sic the AFA _and_ Focus on the Family on you. Enclosed is my commute route and the broadcasting area in which I live." But, it seems I’m [too late to cash in](http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/brandnewday/archives/2005/12/ford_affirms_ga.html). Balls. ---
**Author:** ![Dark\_Side\_of\_the\_Floyd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bb73d2/32.png) [@Dark\_Side\_of\_the\_Floyd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dark_Side_of_the_Floyd)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/50 "2005-12-15T01:35:38Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Falwell, Dobson, Wildmon, Robertson, Phelps?,… No thanks. We don’t want 'em. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/51 "2005-12-15T02:25:30Z")
Good for our leaders/representatives/whatever and to hell with the sorry ass AFA bigot bastards. May their smackdowns be many and often. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/52 "2005-12-15T11:43:55Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > Alexis Arquette won’t be qualified to be a spokes-[man](http://worldofwonder.net/archives/2004/may/24/at_least_he_wont_have_to_change_his_name.wow) for anything any time soon. Yes, and that is the whole point. You do not want the media picking your “leaders” for you. You may like the one they picked today but the one they pick tomorrow may be the G&L Al Sharpton. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/53 "2005-12-15T12:24:46Z")
When you have a group like the AFA organizing boycotts against you, you need to organize to fight back. Regardless of your politics, having groups pressure companies to avoid your business is something you should care about. Gay activist groups are the best way the gay community has to focus their energies on individual topics of importance. Who else was going to step up to the plate and get Ford to clarify/change their decision, that looked like so much caving in to the religious right? > [@Squink](#): > > [Ford Caves](http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/12/ap-story-on-ford-we-won.html) > [Ford to advertise Jaguar, Land Rover in gay publications](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051214/pl_nm/autos_ford_ads_dc_1) > [Ford will again advertise in gay publications](http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/12/14/ford.boycott.ap.ap/) Leaders that actually get good works done are a boon to the community they represent. Leaders that are more interested in getting their mugs on TV and lining their pockets than improving the lives of the people they represent are ‘leaders’ who deserve to be mocked. ---
**Author:** ![Homebrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/54 "2005-12-15T16:14:46Z")
What’s the real story now? Was AFA lying and they didn’t get the assurances from Ford that they claimed? Was there a group within Ford making assurances they didn’t have the authority to make? Did Ford make the assurances and then realize the backlash wasn’t worth it? It’s a confusing mess of changing stories and points to disorganization within Ford itself, which may be related to why Ford is struggling financially. The way things have settled for now, seems to add credence to Ford’s claim that it was simply those brands cutting back on advertising and a coincidence that AFA made the claims they did. Except for the fact that a Ford spokesman referred reporters from _The Advocate_ to the AFA release, which seems to support the AFA claims. Here’s Ford’s letter: > [@](#): > > Dear Friends: > > Thank you again for taking the time to speak with us on Monday. In my view, it was the start of a valuable and healthy dialogue, and I was pleased to be there on behalf of Bill Ford, Chairman and CEO of Ford Motor Company. > > My intention was to be as direct and forthright. You deserve no less. I appreciate your candor in return. I’d like to take this opportunity to review the information we shared face-to-face and to tell you how our thinking has evolved. > > You asked us specifically to reaffirm our principles of nondiscrimination and inclusiveness. We agreed, without any reservations, and issued a statement immediately after the meeting in which Bill Ford did so personally. We pointed out that Ford Motor Company and its brands value diversity among all of our constituents and pride ourselves on strong and clear values–respect for our customers, communities, employees, suppliers and dealers; acceptance of our differences; inclusion of different people with different perspectives; and integrity. That commitment is unchanged and we believe it is reflected in our policies, practices and marketing. > > You asked us to comment on reports that we had placed creative restrictions on the way our brands could speak to gay and lesbian audiences. We expect our brands to create advertising that supports their brand image and is appropriate and effective in connecting with the intended audience. That is unchanged. But we do not have to deal with this topic in the abstract. The best answer to your question will be in the ads themselves. I would ask you to judge our intent by what you see. > > You asked directly whether Ford Motor Company will continue to support nonprofit groups and events in the GLBT community. While we will still support certain events, I know you understand that the business situation will limit the extent of our support in all communities in 2006. We will continue all of our workplace policies and practices in support of Ford GLOBE members and supporters. That is unchanged. > > You asked directly for us to have Jaguar and Land Rover reverse its plans and advertise in gay and lesbian targeted publications in 2006. As we said, Jaguar and Land Rover made a business decision about their media plans and it would be inconsistent with the way we manage our business to direct them to do otherwise. It is clear there is a misperception about our intent. As a result, we have decided to run corporate ads in these targeted publications that will include not only Jaguar/Land Rover but all eight of Ford’s vehicle brands. As we have said, the content will be appropriate and effective in connecting with the intended audience. It is my hope that this will remove any ambiguity about Ford’s desire to advertise to all important audiences and put this particular issue behind us. > > Finally, you expressed your strong objections to our having even met with one of your harshest critics. We meet every day with people and organizations on many issues, and, as a business, do not wish be drawn into those that detract from our effectiveness in the marketplace. That said, we expect to be measured not by the meetings we conduct but by our conduct itself. Our record on tolerance and inclusion speaks for itself and I am proud to be judged on that record at any time. > > In closing, thank you again for your candor and professionalism. We listened and learned, and hope that you continue to understand the values and commitments of Ford Motor Company. I look forward to hearing from you at any time. > > Sincerely, > > Joe Laymon ---
**Author:** ![flight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbce88/32.png) [@flight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flight)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/55 "2005-12-15T16:18:40Z")
> [@iamthewalrus(:3=](#): > > …Focus on the Family… Now I have a picture of a Ford Focus falling from the sky and landing on a husband, wife, and 2.5 kids a la the Wicked Witch of the West. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493/56 "2005-12-15T23:44:03Z")
According to [365gay.com](http://365gay.com) The American Family Association said Thursday it is considering reinstating its boycott against Ford Motor Co. following the company’s decision to continue advertising in gay publications. Ford announced last week that it would end all advertising in the LGBT media following a meeting between company executives and the AFA over a threatened boycott. The AFA left the meeting declaring victory over “homosexual activists”. … Wednesday afternoon the giant automaker announced it would not end its advertising and would also increase it. … “We had an agreement with Ford, worked out in good faith. Unfortunately, some Ford Motor Company officials made the decision to violate the good faith agreement. We are now considering our response to the violation and expect to reach a decision very soon,” said AFA chair Donald E. Wildmon in a statement. … “All we wanted was for Ford to refrain from choosing sides in the cultural war, and supporting groups which promote same-sex marriage is not remaining neutral,” Wildmon’s statement said. Awww, the poor little AFA is now playing the martyr, in a fight they started and won’t let go of. They should know, “either you’re with me or against me” doesn’t always pan out the way you’d like (snicker). Maybe if I were shopping for a car now, I would buy a Ford just to thumb my nose at the AFA. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ford-talks-with-gay-leaders/335493.md?page=2)