# Foreign countries want old PCs with 486DX math coprocessors to use in guided missiles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 4, 2010, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258 "2010-03-04T08:36:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/1 "2010-03-04T08:36:02Z")
[This blog had this question](http://salisburygrinch.blogspot.com/) > [@](#): > > Do you know, or can you put up a post, where one can safely and securely recycle old computer equipment in Salisbury or Wicomico County? I did a Google search and it appears that there once was a City of Salisbury plan for such items but the information was several years old. Thanks for your time." and one person comented > [@](#): > > BossHogg said… > Recycling computers is another program to make people feel “green” and good about themselves. What happens to those computers and electronics after you drop them off at the green recycle station? They are put in containers or the cargo holds of huge transport ships and shipped to countries like Malaysia. > > Once safely offshore they are stripped of easy to get metal parts, usually by child labor. Here in the good old USA these kids would be in Kindergarten or elementary school. The green people have these children stripping their old computers but the best is saved for last. o recover the minute amounts of precious metals such as gold, silver, palladium and platinum that are used on computer circuit boards, they must be dipped in very caustic acid. > > In the USA it would be illegal in most places to use these acids or the cost or proper reclamation facilities would be millions, just to recover a tiny amount of precious metals. Malaysian people have no EPA laws nor are they a part of the Rio agreement for a greener world. The only green they see is money. Usually the runoff from the acid baths are dumped into the ground water or runoff from ditches into streams. The toxic acids that runoff from reclaiming scrap electronics make the entire recent chicken manure scare on the eastern shore look tame in comparison. If the toxic waste that goes into the environment does not bother you there are > > \*\* a couple of national security issues. Anyone who remembers the old 486 DX computers with the math co-processor? That $30 co-processor chip is a vital component used in guided missile systems. The Patriot missile for example that was used extensively in the first gulf war depended on “ancient” technology with the 486 DX math co-processor chip for the guidance system. The “scrappers” are always on the lookout for certain restricted items that have a dual use in weapon systems. \*\* > > **By having these little children, with sharp eyes and small hands set these and other classified ITAR regulated components aside, they make a few extra dollars selling them to our enemies for use in weapons systems to be fired at our children or relatives in the armed forces. I hope the fact that knowing little children are using toxic acids totally outlawed in the USA to “recycle” your old computer helps you to sleep a little better at night.** > > This is what happens to 100% of the scrap electronics recycled by communities across the USA. Or you can just sell it on Craigslist or put your outdated electronics in a pile in your garage or shed. Any truth to this? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/2 "2010-03-04T11:12:45Z")
1. I call bs. It would be far easier to buy a PC and use its microprossessor 2. Malaysia has been used as a stand in for “poor third world country”, Malaysia has a pretty big electronics industry anyway. 3)[Malaysian Enviroment Laws](http://www.thecommonwealth.org/Shared_ASP_Files/UploadedFiles/EC193D61-40F3-4D8E-874E-29CD9C344CC0_ListofMalaysianEnvironmentallaws.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/3 "2010-03-04T13:06:57Z")
Well the part about guided missile’s is pretty silly. But for the rest of it, he’s wrong about the country, Malaysia is a rich country by asian standards and the price of labour is much too high for this kind of trade to be profitable. India, Bangladesh, China are where this kind of practise happens: > **[Greenwash: E-waste trade is the unacceptable face of recycling, says Fred Pearce](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2009/may/28/greenwash-electronic-waste)** > > Computer manufacturers must take responsibility for dealing with electronic waste to ensure toxic trash doesn't fall into the wrong hands, says Fred Pearce ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/4 "2010-03-04T13:14:23Z")
The 486DX may have been restricted 20 years ago, but the current restrictions are looking at systems measured in Teraflops. There are also restrictions on microprocessors designed for extreme temperatures, except for automotive applications and radiation hardened. You can download the current restrictions here: [http://www.wassenaar.org/controllists/index.html](http://www.wassenaar.org/controllists/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/5 "2010-03-04T13:19:17Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Well the part about guided missile’s is pretty silly. Yes. It makes no sense. Under what circumstances would it ever be commonplace for the wrong kind of people to have a stack of Patriot missiles which were ready to go, lacking onlytheir 486 processors? Or are they pocketing the processor and saying “Hey! now all we need is the rest of the missile”? ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/6 "2010-03-04T17:16:53Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Yes. It makes no sense. > > Under what circumstances would it ever be commonplace for the wrong kind of people to have a stack of Patriot missiles which were ready to go, lacking onlytheir 486 processors? > > Or are they pocketing the processor and saying “Hey! now all we need is the rest of the missile”? There will doubtless be a followup email talking about what happens when you send your old Patriot missiles overseas for recycling. You **think** they’re getting turned into bedsprings and flowerpots but the awful truth is that innocent children are being exploited to salvage and repair them. Those refurbished missiles are then put on sale via a secret E-Bay store. Seriously, the story sounds a bit hokey to me. If some nation has the money to develop missiles I’m pretty sure they won’t have any trouble going out and buying a container full of old 486 processors which probably go for about a dollar apiece these days. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/7 "2010-03-04T17:23:57Z")
I seem to recall (been awhile so dim memory) that Playstations were initially banned for sale to China and others. Apparently the video processor in there was deemed more than sufficient to be adapted to use in a missile. And cheap too as such things go. This was at least ten years ago if not more but at the time seemed odd my videogame console could guide a missile. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/8 "2010-03-04T17:25:37Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Under what circumstances would it ever be commonplace for the wrong kind of people to have a stack of Patriot missiles which were ready to go, lacking onlytheir 486 processors? Sure, you say that now, but when the terrorists have mathematics co-processors, all they’ll need are warheads, rocket motors, guidance software and launch equipment. And missile casings. But anyway, once they’ve got those, they’ll have everything they need to shoot down 40-year-old aircraft, so don’t come crying to me when your MiG-25s are destroyed. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/9 "2010-03-04T18:13:39Z")
This sounds like mostly bull to me, an anti-green rant with a bit of truth mixed in. The 486 processors in missiles thing reminds me of the “my watch has more processing power than the spacecraft that took us to the moon” boast, to which I retort “yes, and the lack of a fucking great rocket is a minor omission”. ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/10 "2010-03-04T18:15:04Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > This was at least ten years ago if not more but at the time seemed odd my videogame console could guide a missile. Given that the US and Russia were already installing ICBMs in the 50s, I would be amazed if you couldn’t use the simple processors available to anyone in the early 80s to guide a missile accurately enough for most uses. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/11 "2010-03-04T18:17:44Z")
Why bother trying to scrounge up ancient 486s when a modern ARM processor would probably be cheaper and easier to find? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/12 "2010-03-04T18:24:20Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > This sounds like mostly bull to me, an anti-green rant with a bit of truth mixed in. > > The 486 processors in missiles thing reminds me of the “my watch has more processing power than the spacecraft that took us to the moon” boast, to which I retort “yes, and the lack of a fucking great rocket is a minor omission”. Sure but the point is there are a series of impediments standing in the way of the “bad guys” getting their hands on various things we’d rather they didn’t. Like if the bad guys want to build a nuclear bomb getting their hands on U235 is only a start. That is not to say though that we should ignore them getting U235 because U235 is not a bomb. It is just one big road block in a series of road blocks to a working bomb. We want to stop them at every one if we can. > [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](#): > > Given that the US and Russia were already installing ICBMs in the 50s, I would be amazed if you couldn’t use the simple processors available to anyone in the early 80s to guide a missile accurately enough for most uses. Sure but the point is various countries do not have any way to make the tech themselves. The Soviets and US did. If the guys we’d rather not have missiles can pickup what amounts to a guidance system off the shelf at Toys-R-Us then the US sees that as a problem. A missile without guidance is effectively worthless. That said the tech for computers has advanced so fast and is so ubiquitous that standing in the way of Playstation sales to some countries was pretty laughable even then and looking back just absurd. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/13 "2010-03-04T18:35:35Z")
I’m sitting here looking at the “Made in China” stamp on the bottom of my laptop, and trying to figure out why anyone would think it makes sense to try to keep China (or any other SE Asian country) from getting their hands on electronic devices that might be used for some nefarious purpose. Anyways, any smartphone has lots enough processing umph to get the job done. No need to scavenge for obscure 20-year-old chips. ---
**Author:** ![Dag\_Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@Dag\_Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dag_Otto)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/14 "2010-03-04T19:10:43Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Anyways, any smartphone has lots enough processing umph to get the job done. No need to scavenge for obscure 20-year-old chips. Not if the 486 was part of an embedded system and couldn’t be replaced easily by a modern processor. In fact wikipedia has this to say about the 486: > [@](#): > > Although the 486 became obsolete for personal computer applications by the mid-1990s, Intel had continued production for use in embedded systems. In May 2006 Intel announced that production of the 80486 would cease at the end of September 2007. Even if the math coprocessor is a different item, it is likely out of production too. With the processor no longer in production, recycling would be one source that you wouldn’t overlook if you needed the chip. As for the claim that 486 processors can be bought in bulk for about a dollar each, uh, cite? ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/15 "2010-03-04T19:30:49Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > I’m sitting here looking at the “Made in China” stamp on the bottom of my laptop, and trying to figure out why anyone would think it makes sense to try to keep China (or any other SE Asian country) from getting their hands on electronic devices that might be used for some nefarious purpose. > > Anyways, any smartphone has lots enough processing umph to get the job done. No need to scavenge for obscure 20-year-old chips. The processors that go into that “Made in China” laptop are probably “Made in [Chandler](http://wikimapia.org/6444/Intel-Chandler).” ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/16 "2010-03-04T19:33:31Z")
This all makes me feel better that the only computer I’ve ever donated away had a 486 _SX_ processor. _Screw you, missile-launching terrorists!_ ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/17 "2010-03-04T19:52:05Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > As for the claim that 486 processors can be bought in bulk for about a dollar each, uh, cite? Google “Exaggeration for humorous effect”. I have not priced 486 processors recently but they are cheap. A brand new 2.2ghz CPU is under $30 at Newegg. I just checked EBay and there are 486 CPUs for under $8. I have no doubt that if you went to a chip manufacturer and said “I’ll take a thousand” that the price would be lower still. We’re talking about a 20+ year old chip, not something that has to be hand-carved in silicon by trained Swiss artisans. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/18 "2010-03-04T19:53:15Z")
> [@Dag\_Otto](#): > > Not if the 486 was part of an embedded system and couldn’t be replaced easily by a modern processor. This is sort of true, if in fact the bad guys have a complete missile, with guidance system board, and the only thing missing is the chip. That’s pretty far-fetched, though. Even if they did, the 486 is 20-year-old technology. I bet you could completely emulate a 486 in an FPGA for \< $50. The math coprocessor itself is probably much simpler. So, given a bunch of really generous assumptions, if we were able to completely stop recycling old computers, you might drive up the price of a black market missile by $50. ---
**Author:** ![RadioWave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/91b2a8/32.png) [@RadioWave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RadioWave)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/19 "2010-03-04T20:23:07Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > This is sort of true, if in fact the bad guys have a complete missile, with guidance system board, and the only thing missing is the chip. That’s pretty far-fetched, though. Even if they did, the 486 is 20-year-old technology. I bet you could completely emulate a 486 in an FPGA for \< $50. The math coprocessor itself is probably much simpler. by $50. Not to mention the functionality of the math coprocessor could be accomplished entirely in software cheaper and faster than using the old chip. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258/20 "2010-03-04T20:46:53Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > The processors that go into that “Made in China” laptop are probably “Made in [Chandler](http://wikimapia.org/6444/Intel-Chandler).” That’s as may be, the chip that was made in Chandler was shipped in bulk to the factory in China that assembled the laptop. CPU chips are not hard to come by in any country. And any CPU on the market today, including those found in cell phones and the like, can duplicate the functionality of a 486 math coprocessor. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-countries-want-old-pcs-with-486dx-math-coprocessors-to-use-in-guided-missiles/531258.md?page=2)