# Foreign Diaspora **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 18, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108 "2016-05-18T18:38:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/1 "2016-05-18T18:38:56Z")
Heard a statistic last night that 1 of every 5 (20%) El Salvadorans lives in the U.S. After a short search, discovered this to be true. > **[Salvadoran Immigrants in the United States in 2008](https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/salvadoran-immigrants-united-states-2008)** > > The 1.1 million Salvadoran immigrants residing in the United States in 2008 accounted for 2.9 percent of all U.S. immigrants, making them the second-largest immigrant group from Latin America. MPI's Aaron Terrazas examines their socioeconomic... > [@](#): > > About one of every five Salvadorans resides in the United States. > The 1.1 million Salvadoran immigrants in the United States represent about one-fifth (19.1 percent) of the total population of El Salvador (5.7 million in 2007 according to the Salvadoran Department of Statistics and Censuses). So I did a bit more research and discovered that roughly 19% of Mexico’s population resides in the U.S., with approx. 23 million Mexicans living in the US, making it the largest in terms of total #'s of one countries citizens living in a single other country. As a % of their countries population, which country has the highest % residing one other single country? Is it El Salvadorans in the US? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/2 "2016-05-18T18:57:09Z")
Puerto Rico is U.S. territory, so the following may not quite count for your OP: There were approximately 5.2 million folks of Puerto Rican origin living in the U.S. mainland in 2014 ([link](http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_13_1YR_B03001&prodType=table)). Puerto Rico, itself, had a population of [approximately 3.7 million](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puerto_Rico#Population_and_racial_makeup) in the 2010 census. Since 2010, Puerto Rico’s population has dropped to an estimated 3.47 million (7/1/2015 est). ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/3 "2016-05-18T21:21:18Z")
During the peak migration period in the late 1800s, 1/4 of Norway’s population moved to the US. During the more extended [Irish Diaspora](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_diaspora#United_States), more people in total moved out of Ireland than the peak Irish population. With Great Britain taking in the largest share. The article doesn’t give a % figure for any point in time but it had to have quite high. One confounding factor is the distinction between modern Ireland and N. Ireland wouldn’t be easy to factor in. At the subnational, ethnic or religious group, level, some groups almost completely abandoned their homeland with the US being a common gathering point. Esp. common is areas in and near the Middle East where persecution is strong. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/4 "2016-05-18T22:28:54Z")
I guess if you pick on any small island nation, say smaller than New Zealand, in population, you may well find high %… Well if you look at New Zealand, then diaspora is 10-20% … One reason for the blurryness is that the recent immigrant can easily become a citizen of NZ ,as it only takes a few years… But they certainly aren’t forced to stay, and Australia lets NZ citizens immigrate to Australia… So a new immigrant to NZ soon becomes a NZ emigrant…do they count ? That said, plenty of NZ born and maori people in Australia, being most of the diaspora from NZ… ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/5 "2016-05-18T22:34:18Z")
Armenia is a nation of approximately 3 million people today. There have been large Armernian emigrations in the past. [Estimates for the number of Armenians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_diaspora#Population_by_country) in Russia vary between 1.18 - 2.90 million. Similarly, estimates for the number of Armenians in the United States vary between 483,000 and 1.5 million. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/6 "2016-05-18T22:57:31Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > During the more extended [Irish Diaspora](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_diaspora#United_States), more people in total moved out of Ireland than the peak Irish population. With Great Britain taking in the largest share. The article doesn’t give a % figure for any point in time but it had to have quite high. One confounding factor is the distinction between modern Ireland and N. Ireland wouldn’t be easy to factor in. At the time, it was said that there were more Irish people living in New York City than in Dublin (Ireland’s largest city). They have since spread out across the US. But I think it is still true that there are more people of Irish descent in the USA than in Ireland (all the country, including free Ireland and the 6 imprisoned counties). ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/7 "2016-05-18T22:58:08Z")
Isn’t the answer going to depend heavily on the citizenship laws of the sending nation? For example, under Irish nationality laws over the years, one born anywhere on the island of Ireland before 1922 (and many born after that date) was automatically a citizen of the Republic of Ireland, even if they born in the North, stayed in the North, and wanted nothing to do with the republic. Similarly, pre-WWI German jus sanguinis nationality laws not infrequently conferred that nationality up on every male-line descendant unto remote generations, long after the family had emigrated. Dwight Eisenhower, e.g., most likely had Prussian citizenship up until he joined the U.S. Army in 1915, 170+ years after his great-great-great-grandfather left the Rhine. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2016, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/8 "2016-05-18T23:50:04Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > I guess if you pick on any small island nation, say smaller than New Zealand, in population, you may well find high %… Well if you look at New Zealand, then diaspora is 10-20% … > One reason for the blurryness is that the recent immigrant can easily become a citizen of NZ ,as it only takes a few years… But they certainly aren’t forced to stay, and Australia lets NZ citizens immigrate to Australia… So a new immigrant to NZ soon becomes a NZ emigrant…do they count ? > > That said, plenty of NZ born and maori people in Australia, being most of the diaspora from NZ… The New Zealand diaspora may be a bit overstated, [Stats NZ](http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_stats/population/mythbusters/1million-kiwis-live-overseas.aspx) estimated about 600,000 New Zealand-born resided overseas in 2012, with maybe a million total if all overseas New Zealand citizens (including children) are counted. This equates to about 22% of the current population of New Zealand. By comparison there were just over 1 million people born overseas living in [New Zealand in 2013.](http://www.stats.govt.nz/Census/2013-census/profile-and-summary-reports/quickstats-culture-identity/birthplace.aspx) 90-95% of [Niueans live](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niue)in New Zealand, although that’s similar to the Puerto Rico situation as they’re New Zealand citizens. The Cook Islands have a similar status with about 75% of Cook Islanders residing in New Zealand. For fully independent nations I’d say Samoa is in the running. There are about 130,000 Samoans living in New Zealand, compared with 190,000 in New Zealand - 68%. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/9 "2016-05-19T01:08:43Z")
There are something like five times as many people of Irish descent in the U.S. than there are people in both the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/10 "2016-05-19T13:10:05Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > There are something like five times as many people of Irish descent in the U.S. than there are people in both the Irish Republic and Northern Ireland. “of descent” doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/11 "2016-05-19T13:25:18Z")
Well, it did count for several of the other posts. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/12 "2016-05-19T14:16:48Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > “of descent” doesn’t count. This can sticky when reckoning any but the most recent emigrations. It’s probably why the estimates for the number of Armenians in Russia and the U.S. vary so widely. Those 1.1 million Salvadoran emigrants mentioned in your OP … were they all born Salvadoran citizens (presumably, in El Salvador)? Or do American-born children of Salvadoran emigrants count toward that 1.1 million? Locally, there were several Salvadoran immigrant children in local schools with me in the 1980s. I don’t know all of their whereabouts these days, but a few of them have stayed around here, gotten married, had kids, etc. So even the Salvadoran emigration started long enough ago to have a generation of children born in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/13 "2016-05-19T14:19:56Z")
Hasn’t **Bricker** mentioned his parents were born in El Salvador? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/14 "2016-05-19T14:42:38Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Heard a statistic last night that 1 of every 5 (20%) El Salvadorans lives in the U.S. After a short search, discovered this to be true. > > > [@](#): > > > > About one of every five Salvadorans resides in the United States. > > \*\*The 1.1 million Salvadoran immigrants in the United States \*\*represent about one-fifth (19.1 percent) of the total population of El Salvador (5.7 million in 2007 according to the Salvadoran Department of Statistics and Censuses). > > So I did a bit more research and discovered that roughly 19% of Mexico’s population resides in the U.S., with approx. **23 million Mexicans living in the US** , making it the largest in terms of total #'s of one countries citizens living in a single other country. [2014 estimates from the U.S. Census bureau](http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_13_1YR_B03001&prodType=table) put the numbers of Salvadorans in the U.S. at 2.1 million, and the number of Mexicans at 35.3 million. I think the higher numbers have to include American-born folks though – your [migrationpolicy.org link](http://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/salvadoran-immigrants-united-states#2) in the OP specifies “_foreign-born_”. . ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/15 "2016-05-19T18:18:25Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > “of descent” doesn’t count. Sure seems to on emails asking for contributions to support IRA freedom fighters! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/16 "2016-05-19T18:35:18Z")
Re: “of descent” — when does one stop being a member of the diaspora, then? If we’re talking diaspora from Country1 to Country2, is it: first Country2-born people? first people who no longer speak Country1’s language? first people who no longer practice Country1’s culture as their primary culture? first people who no longer have a strong identification as “people of Country1”? first people who no longer practice Country1’s culture much at all? first people of mixed Country1 / SomethingElse heritage? Are the rules different when Country1 ceases to be independent? …ceases to exist? If you think of the commonly referenced diasporas (Jewish, Irish), it seems like there’s different standards being applied to each. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/17 "2016-05-19T20:33:36Z")
> [@slash2k](#): > > … Dwight Eisenhower, e.g., most likely had Prussian citizenship up until he joined the U.S. Army in 1915, 170+ years after his great-great-great-grandfather left the Rhine. This is a very cool fact. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/18 "2016-05-19T21:02:55Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Re: “of descent” — when does one stop being a member of the diaspora, then? Outside of the people still living in Africa, we’re all Africans by heritage. (And if you keep going back, we’re all formerly of the ocean.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-diaspora/755108/19 "2016-05-19T21:09:37Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Outside of the people still living in Africa, we’re all Africans by heritage. (And if you keep going back, we’re all formerly of the ocean.) Yes, but “African” is neither an ethnicity nor a nationality. Saying we’re of ultimate African or oceanic descent conveys no information that the word “human” doesn’t also convey. At best you can contrast “never left Africa” with “left Africa,” but given the size and diversity of those two pools, not to mention the time depth, I’m not sure how that would be meaningful in terms of culture or ethnicity. So in the context of a discussion of diasporas, it’s pretty meaningless.