Foreign* examples of failed gun control

[bluezooky]

It’s very difficult to argue the figures on guns vs crime in Australia as they are too many confounding factors however the gun buyback doesn’t seem to have slowed these guys any.

[FRDE]

@Shagnasty

The UK has much higher crime overall than the U.S. except for rape and murder. Some say this is because criminals basically have a license to pillage because most of the police don’t even carry guns. There is nothing definitive however.

The UK police sometimes carry guns, around 1990 I happened to spot that a police officer had an automatic in a leather trouser pocket. He was standing near a bus stop on the Aldwych - which is not a very sensitive area.

Also the UK police can whistle up armed reinforcements, I’ve seen that in the same area when a robbery of a building society went wrong, and the police held a siege. It was quite funny, a policeman with what looked like a short assault rifle was taking cover behind a plastic bollard.

My understanding (and I cannot cite) is that UK criminals with more than half a grey cell, are very wary of using guns on the police.

I reckon that our crime rate is higher because the penalties are not that draconian. One burglar can be a self contained crime wave, give him 12 months in the UK and he is back in six months - give him three years with no remission and his opportunity to reoffend is substantially reduced.

[DrDeth]

@e-logic

Just a quick point of clarification on this one… homeowners who shoot an intruder usually are arrested by the police and charged with an offence.

However, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) will usually decide fairly early on not to proceed with the prosecution.

The argument from the police is that an offence has clearly been committed - and therefore arrest and charges are the only sensible way forward - but that it’s up to the CPS (not the police) to determine whether it’s in the public interest to pursue the charges in court.

And more often than not the homeowner will not face any punishment (exceptions being e.g. the Tony Martin case where excessive violence was used)

Except $10000 or so in legal fees, a bond fee of another $10,000, and possible loss of job. :rolleyes: Being arrested for any major crime is a punishment in of itself, which is why it should not be done lightly. The Police can wait to make the arrest until after the Attorney General has decided to press charges- at least here in the USA. In other words, the only reason to make an arrest is risk of flight or a “clear and present danger to the publix safety”. The dude who has defended his own home is not likely to be either, thus an arrest should not be made. IMHO.

[Askance]

@bluezooky

It’s very difficult to argue the figures on guns vs crime in Australia as they are too many confounding factors however the gun buyback doesn’t seem to have slowed these guys any.

Considering the buyback was of assault weapons only, was intended to address random one-off mass killings, and those guys in that link used handguns and carbombs, that’s hardly surprising.

Only a buyback of and ban on all firearms could be expected to affect that kind of thing, if anything.

[GorillaMan]

@FRDE

Also the UK police can whistle up armed reinforcements

Yep, and in my experience it takes about ninety seconds for them to arrive. T’was a dodgy part of Manchester, mind.

I reckon that our crime rate is higher because the penalties are not that draconian.

Yep, and that explains why European countries with shorter sentences than ours have higher crime rates. No, err…

[GorillaMan]

Oh, and…

@FRDE

his opportunity to reoffend is substantially reduced.

Anyone got any figures for recidivism in the UK and USA?

[matt_mcl]

@Little Nemo

I also heard it said that head-to-head comparisons of crime rate statistics are not always as objective as they may appear. Different countries use different definitons of what constitutes a crime. Two countries that appear to have radically different levels of “assault” are really just acting two different things.

I’m too lazy to search for it, but someone once tried to demonstrate that Canada has a higher rate of violent crimes per capita than the United States does. I showed that our statistics simply used a much broader definition of violent crime.