# Foreign language requirements in other nations **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 4, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211 "2004-04-04T18:45:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/1 "2004-04-04T18:45:57Z")
I was debating with a friend about how I think studying a second language should be mandatory in American schools (if anyone wants to continue that debate, let me know and I’ll start a thread in Great Debates). I’ve heard anecdotally that children from other nations have to study one, two or even three languages other than their native one while in school. But this is all anecdotal, and I like having cites. 😉 I’ve tried searching on Google, but I keep getting results for schools that happen to teach foreign languages, or English language requirements for foreign students in the UK, etc. Does anyone know (with books or websites) if there are any national requirements for second languges in schools in other countries? I know we have many international Dopers too, and I hope they can help me out (cites, please ;))! ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/2 "2004-04-04T19:14:48Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > Does anyone know (with books or websites) if there are any national requirements for second languges in schools in other countries? I know we have many international Dopers too, and I hope they can help me out (cites, please ;))! In Germany, you cannot graduate from (or leave with certificate) any school without at least five years of English classes. The quality of education varies greatly depending on the school level, though. Hard to get a cite because every German state makes up its own curricula. I know the above for a fact with regard to Bavaria, and I am pretty sure for the other 15 states. ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/3 "2004-04-04T19:19:07Z")
In England and Wales, it’s mandatory for ages 11-14, and most continue to 16 and take a GCSE examination in one or two languages. Indeed, many _schools_ make it mandatory through to that stage. Many universities look favourably on appliants with a decent grade at that standard or above. It still leaves us well behind most of Europe, AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![sibyl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@sibyl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sibyl)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/4 "2004-04-04T19:24:58Z")
In Pakistan they start learning English from about 6th grade on up. In the US, most colleges require at least 2 years of foreign language in high school for admittance and most high schools require the same to graduate. ---
**Author:** ![Shrinking\_Violet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Shrinking\_Violet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shrinking_Violet)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/5 "2004-04-04T19:29:52Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > In England and Wales, it’s mandatory for ages 11-14, and most continue to 16 and take a GCSE examination in one or two languages. Indeed, many _schools_ make it mandatory through to that stage. Many universities look favourably on appliants with a decent grade at that standard or above. It still leaves us well behind most of Europe, AFAIK. [Cite](http://www.nc.uk.net/nc/contents/subsandks.htm) for this. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/6 "2004-04-04T19:31:04Z")
> [@fishcheer15](#): > > In Germany, you cannot graduate from (or leave with certificate) any school without at least five years of English classes. The quality of education varies greatly depending on the school level, though. > > Hard to get a cite because every German state makes up its own curricula. I know the above for a fact with regard to Bavaria, and I am pretty sure for the other 15 states. German’s the only language I have a semi-decent grasp of (besides English I mean); would you have any websites in German that explain these requirements, at least for Bavaria? Or some search terms I might try using? And are all these national requirements (this is for all replies), or is it more of a local decision? ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/7 "2004-04-04T19:33:38Z")
> [@Shrinking Violet](#): > > [Cite](http://www.nc.uk.net/nc/contents/subsandks.htm) for this. Thanks for this cite! One country down, five bazillion more to go. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/8 "2004-04-04T19:45:51Z")
Basically I can confirm what **fishcheer15** said. Although it is only a German PDF booklet issued by the ministry of culture, I have a [cite](http://www.kultusministerium.hessen.de/downloads/fremdsprachen_RZ_MK.pdf) for the state of Hesse where I graduated. In short it is: - always one foreign language, - if it is only one, then it’s virtually guaranteed to be English - up to three “full” and officially recognized foreign languages depending on type of school - possibly plus optional courses In addition to that a regular school degree that allows you to attend a university requires that you took at least two foreign languages at some point of your career. This is not necessarily true for degrees from adult education or degrees that allow only access to limited subjects, but the one-foreign-language rule is still valid for those. I took English, Latin and French, in that order. ---
**Author:** ![kellner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c2a13f/32.png) [@kellner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kellner)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/9 "2004-04-04T19:53:36Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > And are all these national requirements (this is for all replies), or is it more of a local decision? Sorry, I should preview more often. Like everything concerning schools it is the responsibility of the states, but it is coordinated so that the general guidelines are the same in all of Germany. Within this framework individual schools can offer different selections of languages. ---
**Author:** ![Fish\_Cheer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fish_cheer/32/17179_2.png) [@Fish\_Cheer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish_Cheer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/10 "2004-04-04T20:52:27Z")
What **kellner** said. I might add that Italian or Spanish also are widely available choices. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/11 "2004-04-04T20:54:59Z")
Expanding a bit on the replies re German curricula: - one foreign language in primary school has been generally introduced in my state (Baden-Württemberg) this year and will probably be implemented nationwide in a few years. In my state it’s French in the border regions, English elsewhere. It’ll probably be English nationwide, with a bit Dutch/Danish/Polish etc. in the border regions. - at grade 5 (age 10) most states sort the students into three branches: a) Hauptschule - grade 5-9 or 5-10, prepares for crafts/manual work/retail/clerical work - one foreign language - most schools struggle at that, as they get stuck with the socuially disadvantaged students. b) Realschule - grade 5-10, prepares for administrative/commercial work - one foreign language - second foreign language optional c) Gymnasium - grade 5-12 or 5-13, prepares for university or skilled professions - two foreign languages (used to be one from grade 5, one from grade 7) - more languages optional (if choosing classical or languages specialization) I for one graduated Gymnasium two decades ago with English from grade 5-13 and French from grade 7-12. (I did not need to take more languages as my specialization was mathemathics/sciences). English was one of the four subjects I took the final exam (Abitur) in. I only wish I were born later - the kids who begin languages in primary school are going to blow us junior geezers out of the water when they enter the workforce. One decided blind spot in the German language curriculum is Turkish IMO - we’ve got millions of Turks but hardly any German takes Turkish because it’s not attractive economically - an employer who wants someone with skill X plus Turkish can just hire a Turk with skill X. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/12 "2004-04-04T21:10:08Z")
In Israel, English is taught from 4th grade onward, and is a mandatory subject all through high school, where it is considered one of the most important subjects. The Psychometric- the Israeli version of the SAT - is comprised of three sections: Hebrew, Math and English, with the last comprising 20% of the score. Most colleges require supplementary English studies from students who score low on the that portion of the test. Most high schools also offer either French or (Clasical) Arabic, from 7th grade onward. ---
**Author:** ![Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Harriet\_the\_Spry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harriet_the_Spry)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/13 "2004-04-04T21:14:35Z")
> [@sibyl](#): > > In Pakistan they start learning English from about 6th grade on up. > > In the US, most colleges require at least 2 years of foreign language in high school for admittance and most high schools require the same to graduate. I really doubt the part about most US high schools requiring 2 years foreign language to graduate. They strongly encourage it for college-bound students, but I know my high school foreign language classes had virtually no non-college-bound students in them. If a cite emerges I’ll eat my words (bilingually) if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/14 "2004-04-04T21:41:51Z")
France : A second language is mandatory in middle and high school, that would be 7 years from 11 to 18 (I don’t know how it translates in american “grades”). A third one is mandatory from age 13 (it can be dropped at age 16, but most peole don’t drop it, so usually that would be 5 years). These are modern languages. Latin/Greek can be studied optionnaly but don’t count toward the two mandatory foreign languages. Since students “specialize” in high school (age 15-18), some of them, who choose the “letters and foreign languages” section study a fourth language for 3 years. But very few students choose this section. English isn’t mandatory, though the overwhelming majority of students choose it as one of the two foreign languages they have to study. The most common languages studied besides english are spanish, then german. Italian and russian attract some students but not mush. Arabic and hebrew have some success too, amongst student of Arabic/Jewish descent. Other languages are very rare in middle/high school. Some basis of english have begun to be introduced some years ago as a requirement in primary schools, and in theory should be taught to all children, but in practice it isn’t so, due in particular to a lack of qualified teachers. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/15 "2004-04-04T21:49:20Z")
I noticed you required cites. I must say I’m a bit lazy, and the idea of searching for a site which would summarize high/middle school language requirments in France isn’t very appealing to me. Particulary since I suspect most official sites’ content would probably be either way too detailled (like 12 pages about the official spanish programm for students in grade 10) or wouldn’t mention the requirments. However, if you reallly insist I might try. But the cite will most probably be in french, anyway, so I’m not sure it will help. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/16 "2004-04-04T21:54:58Z")
I forgot to mention that some students in primary/middle/high school study regional languages (Breton, Occitan, Alsatian, etc…) but it doesn’t make for a lot of students, on the overall. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/17 "2004-04-05T00:10:51Z")
Since things vary from province to province in Canada, I acn only tell you for sure about Québec: If you are a francophone student in a francophone school, you begin to take English classes(1 hour a day) in grade 4 and they are mandatory through to the end of high school. I know the curriculum has changed since my graduation in 1998, but you had to have Gr 10 english and gr 11 french to graduate. If you go on to Cegep (general education college) you must take 2 semesters of english and 4 of french to fulfull graduation requirements. If you are a student that thanks to Bill 101 you were allowed to go to english school, then an hour a day of french was required starting in grade 1 (in many schools, french was began in Kindergarten - mine was) and french classes were mandatory through to the end of high school. Graduation requirements were Gr 10 french and Gr 11 english. English-language Cegeps had a graduation requirement of 2 semesters of french and 4 of english. general information on education in Quebec and Bill 101 can be found [here](http://www.meq.gouv.qc.ca/rens/banque/Fiches/F95a.htm). [This](http://www.meq.gouv.qc.ca/legislat/reg-ped.htm) link has information on the actual school programs, though I am having trouble with some of them (Firefox in linux). The link is also in french. As an aside, the school board at which my mom teaches is developing on their own a program of 50-50 english and french instruction. The school board is an anglophone one, but the benefits of bilingualism are huge, especially in that area of Quebec. IIRC, the program now includes students in grade K-3, with a new grade (the guniea pig class) being added every year. There are some flaws, but overall, the program seems to be largely successful at the primary level. I am not sure whether they intend to push this to high school. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/18 "2004-04-05T02:28:42Z")
I believe that Chinese (People’s Republic of China) schools require English and Mandarin (Mandarin is not the native language/dialect of a significant portion of the population). Don’t have cites, and I suspect that school requirements in Chinese are not on the web yet, but I’m headed there in 2 weeks and will try to get some specifics. Look for my data if this thread is still alive after April 17. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/19 "2004-04-05T03:43:41Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I noticed you required cites. I must say I’m a bit lazy, and the idea of searching for a site which would summarize high/middle school language requirments in France isn’t very appealing to me. Particulary since I suspect most official sites’ content would probably be either way too detailled (like 12 pages about the official spanish programm for students in grade 10) or wouldn’t mention the requirments. > > However, if you reallly insist I might try. But the cite will most probably be in french, anyway, so I’m not sure it will help. I have a very very basic knowledge of French (although oddly enough, my Spanish is better even though I only studied that for a couple years during my lunch breaks at school), so if you _did_ find some cites, I might be able to look through them. That’s only if you want to, if you get bored, etc. 🙂 Thanks for the replies so far, this is really interesting! ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2004, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211/20 "2004-04-05T04:35:25Z")
Japan: As often as I see reasons to doubt it, English is in fact required study for all students through all 6 years of middle school and high school. Many universities also require a foreign language (some requiring a language other than English), but this is up to the individual school, I believe. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-language-requirements-in-other-nations/238211.md?page=2)