# Foreign policy if Mayor Pete becomes President **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 20, 2019, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700 "2019-11-20T06:40:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![russian\_heel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f05b48/32.png) [@russian\_heel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/russian_heel)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/1 "2019-11-20T06:40:16Z")
First, before anyone accuses me of an agenda, I would vote for the guy in a heartbeat if the 2020 nominee. But let’s face facts: many countries are not only homophobic but have horrible laws against homosexuality. For instance how would allies such as Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, both of which imprison homosexuals, handle a state visit from a gay President? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/2 "2019-11-20T06:56:24Z")
Your question isn’t about US foreign policy, but about the policy of Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. If they really have a problem receiving a gay US President on a state visit, there’s an easy solution to hand; don’t invite him. He certainly won’t come uninvited. But I’m not convinced that they would have the problem you think they have. You talk to the President of the United States because he’s the President of the United States, not because he’s a person of whose personal qualities or proclivities you approve. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/3 "2019-11-20T06:57:20Z")
Same as they handle visits from those presidents of Iceland or Norway which are or have been in SSMs. Same as countries without polygamy handle visits from heads of state who are polygamous. Same as countries where women must be neither seen nor heard handle visits from female heads of state, or of the female spouses of heads of state, or of other diplomatic envoys. The immense majority of the time, with elegance and courtesy. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/4 "2019-11-20T09:37:28Z")
OP means diplomacy rather than foreign policy. And the art of diplomacy is knowing when to turn a blind eye to something you disapprove of in order to achieve something that’s important to you. State and official visits don’t happen until both parties are already agreed on the objectives and detailed programme for such a visit. ---
**Author:** ![penultima\_thule](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penultima_thule/32/3833_2.png) [@penultima\_thule](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/penultima_thule)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/5 "2019-11-20T10:29:27Z")
You haven’t already addressed this issue with a judicious blind eye? > [@'C.J.' Cregg](#): > > One in forty American men wear women’s clothing and we’ve had well over forty presidents. I’m just saying, at least one of those guys was probably dancing around the Oval Office in a prom dress. Now let’s get to the bottom of that. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/6 "2019-11-20T11:49:35Z")
It’s not like a state visit by President Buttigieg to Saudi Arabia is going to conclude with the Religious Police arresting him and sentencing him to decapitation. From a practical standpoint, if he were visiting a country that wasn’t OK with same-sex relations, he’d probably either have Chasten stay home, or they’d stay in separate suites. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/7 "2019-11-20T12:05:16Z")
> [@russian\_heel](#): > > For instance how would allies such as Saudi Arabia or **Pakistan** , both of which imprison homosexuals, handle a state visit from a gay President? We do? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/8 "2019-11-20T12:48:21Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > We do? I don’t think you do. Homosexual relations are on the books as an offence meriting life imprisonment, but from what I gather, even Western human rights organizations have not been able to point to any recent (i.e., in the past 30 years) convictions, except in cases where the sexual act took place between an adult and a child. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/9 "2019-11-20T13:14:14Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Same as they handle visits from those presidents of Iceland or Norway which are or have been in SSMs. Same as countries without polygamy handle visits from heads of state who are polygamous. Same as countries where women must be neither seen nor heard handle visits from female heads of state, or of the female spouses of heads of state, or of other diplomatic envoys. The immense majority of the time, with elegance and courtesy. This, exactly. Adding the irish taoiseach, Leo Varadkar, to the list, the gay leader who even gave the Saudis a [speech on LGBT rights](https://gcn.ie/taoiseach-arab-states-ireland-lgbt-rights/) in Eqypt earlier this year. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/10 "2019-11-20T14:02:43Z")
Iceland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Ireland, and Serbia have had openly LGBT heads of government (and many others have had officials only just below that level of government, including the U.S. which has had three openly gay governors): > **[List of openly LGBT heads of state and government](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_openly_LGBT_heads_of_government)** > > This is a list of openly lesbian, gay, bisexual, or trans (LGBT) people who have been the head of state or government of a country or a subnational division such as a state, a province, or a territory. Openly LGBT people have served as a national heads of state or government in Iceland, Belgium, Luxembourg, Ireland, San Marino, and Serbia. > Politicians who were closeted while in office and never officially came out or were outed only after their deaths or retirement include: This is as close as I can find quickly of a map of the acceptance of LGBT rights around the world: > **[LGBT rights by country or territory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#/media/File:LGBT_rights_at_the_UN_(2011).svg)** > > Rights affecting lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people vary greatly by country or jurisdiction—encompassing everything from the legal recognition of same-sex marriage to the death penalty for homosexuality. > Notably, as of November 2022\[update\], 33 countries recognized same-sex marriage. By contrast, not counting non-state actors and extrajudicial killings, only two countries are believed to impose the death penalty on consensual same-sex sexual acts: Iran and Afghanistan. The ... A quick summary is that being LGBT is accepted nearly everywhere in North America, South America, Europe, and the Pacific Rim of Asia, while it’s not accepted in North Africa and the Middle East. Yes, I know it’s more complicated than this. If you want to write a book giving more detail than I just did, go ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/11 "2019-11-20T14:17:23Z")
I think there’s a long history of nations tolerating visits from heads of state of differing morals, ethics, and practices. As mentioned, the objectionable things are ignored/not mentioned. The upside of non-war international relations generally outweighs any domestic downsides due to cultural conflicts. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/12 "2019-11-20T14:28:55Z")
Saudi Arabia prohibits the practice of Christianity (or any religion other than Islam) but they haven’t made an issue of any American Presidents being Christian. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/13 "2019-11-20T14:41:12Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Saudi Arabia prohibits the practice of Christianity (or any religion other than Islam) but they haven’t made an issue of any American Presidents being Christian. Saudi Arabia does not prohibit the practice of Chrisltianity; it prohibits the _public_ practice of Christianity. Admittedly, the country has an imperfect record in controlling how the rule has been enforced by the Mutaween, which has on occasion broken up prayer meetings in private homes. Still, the government’s official public policy is that inconspicuous private worship is OK, and this seems to work in practice for the overwhelming majority of the country’s 2 million Christian residents. That said, if a US president came over on an official visit and were stupid enough to start proselytizing in public, this would cause a serious diplomatic incident. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/14 "2019-11-20T14:47:07Z")
I seem to recall that the Saudis had no problem treating Queen Elizabeth during a state visit as if she were an honorary man. Presumably the same would apply to any other state leader whose situation was not in keeping with the stated views of a foreign nation - just ignore the problem. After all, countries that suppress and persecute classes of people will have no problem adding internal dissenters to that list, should someone question their leadership’s behaviour. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/15 "2019-11-20T15:06:31Z")
Let’s move this to Elections. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/16 "2019-11-20T15:42:51Z")
As many have posted, his sexual preference shouldn’t have any bearing on his being President, as it relates to foreign policy. If that were the case, we’d have to consider that, race, religion, sex and skin color among other things. Just not going to allow our hands to be tied in that way. I have much more concern that his major, and in some ways only, qualification is being a mayor of a very small mid-western city. But that’s for another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/17 "2019-11-20T15:51:27Z")
I’ll just point out that despite the slimness of his resume, but Buttigieg has more governing experience than the current PotUS did prior to assuming that office. Apparently the concern of the Founding Fathers was that an PotUS be over 35 but they declined to specify any other qualifications whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/18 "2019-11-20T16:07:21Z")
I’d just like to point out that people vote based on these flawed misconceptions. I had some local friends tell me they preferred Hillary over Trump, but voted for Trump because “those middle eastern countries won’t be willing to work with and respect a woman”. My response was something like “so you’re not familiar with Angela Merkel or Theresa May?” Nope, they’d never heard of either of them. Low information voters make decisions like this all the time. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/19 "2019-11-20T16:36:07Z")
Or Benezir Bhutto? ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700/20 "2019-11-20T17:16:37Z")
Please God tell me they’ve heard of Margaret Thatcher. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreign-policy-if-mayor-pete-becomes-president/843700.md?page=2)