# Foreigners Becoming President (of the USA) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 24, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572 "2003-01-24T00:12:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BKABBY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3ab097/32.png) [@BKABBY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BKABBY)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/1 "2003-01-24T00:12:35Z")
This has been a question plaguing my family for months now, not because it happened, but because it could. We live in Michigan, but frequently go across the Detroit-Windsor border into Canada for the casino/cheap booze (Hey, gotta be honest, right?) We are all American citizens, but one of the people going with us is pregnant. What would happen if she suddenly went into labor early, and couldn’t get back across the border, and the baby was born in Canada? 2 Questions: Would this person have American or Canadian citizenship? And, could this person be president, given the constitutional restrictions? Or, what if I was overseas, on a tourist visa, and the baby was born there? I mean, taking practicality into account, I doubt this’ll matter, but, I was just wondering, in case. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/2 "2003-01-24T00:30:33Z")
The baby would have American citizenship, but I don’t know about dual (Canadian or other foreign) citizenship. The baby would NOT be eligible to be president. ---
**Author:** ![censored](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/35a633/32.png) [@censored](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/censored)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/3 "2003-01-24T00:33:40Z")
One of the criteria for being President is being born in the US. For example…associated cabinet members (like Albright or Kissenger) that were not born in the US would be excluded from the Presidential succession list. ---
**Author:** ![Mike\_H](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mike\_H](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mike_H)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/4 "2003-01-24T00:41:26Z")
The baby WOULD be eligible to be president, since all the constitution says is that to qualify one must be “a naturally born citizen” of the United States, i.e., a citizen by virtue of birth (rather than naturalized), which would be the case in this instance. The constitution doesn’t say anything about _where_ one must be born. This has never been tested however, since to my knowledge no president has been born outside the territory of the United States. ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Barber\_s\_Underwear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/58f4c7/32.png) [@Tony\_Barber\_s\_Underwear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Barber_s_Underwear)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/5 "2003-01-24T00:49:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mike H \* > \*\*This has never been tested however, since to my knowledge no president has been born outside the territory of the United States. \*\* I thought that George Washington and perhaps a couple of others were born outside the United States, as it didn’t exist at the time of their births, but I assume that there was provision made for them when the constitution was drafted. - Bubba. ---
**Author:** ![Philbuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9a140/32.png) [@Philbuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philbuck)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/6 "2003-01-24T00:56:33Z")
Others have provided the answer, but here’s a cite: > [@](#): > > The 14th Amendment defines citizenship this way: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and > of the State wherein they reside.” But even this does not get specific enough. As usual, the Constitution provides the framework for the law, but it is the law that fills in the gaps. > > Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are “citizens of the United States at birth:” > > ``` > Anyone born inside the United States > Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe > Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S. > Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national > Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year > Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21 > Any one born outside the United States, if one is an alien and as long as one is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic > service included in this time) > A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S. > > ``` > > Anyone falling into these categories is considered natural-born, and is eligible to run for President or Vice President. These provisions allow the children of military families to be > considered natural-born, for example. (From [http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop\_citi.html](http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_citi.html)) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tony Barber’s Underwear \* > \*\*I thought that George Washington and perhaps a couple of others were born outside the United States, as it didn’t exist at the time of their births, but I assume that there was provision made for them when the constitution was drafted. > \*\* From Article II, Section 1 of the Consitution: > [@](#): > > No person except a natural born citizen, **or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution** , shall be eligible to the office of President ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/7 "2003-01-24T01:14:55Z")
I retract my assertion that the baby would not be eligible. It PROBABLY would. However, the term “natural born citizen” is nowhere defined in the Constitution, and has apprently never been defined in the Federal courts either. [This site](http://www.thisnation.com/question/049.html#eligible) flatly states that the person WOULD be eligible. [This “American Citizens Abroad” site](http://www.acasweden.org/mag/1999_v09_n03/page15.html) says the question remains open. It notes that there were 2 presidential candidates who MAY have faced court challenges if their election had gone that far. Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona BEFORE it became a state. George Romney was born in Mexico of American parents, exactly what the OP posits. One thing is sure. If the baby comes back and grows up in the US, he/she can certainly _run_ for the Presidency. Given the increasing litigeousness of American society since the '60s, there would almost certainly be a court challenge if your child won. And I suppose that would settle the question. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/8 "2003-01-24T15:29:49Z")
Tangential Note: My high-school history teacher taught that there was a rumor that Andrew Jackson was born on a boat on its way to the United States, although he maintained he was born on American soil. ---
**Author:** ![msgotrocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8edcca/32.png) [@msgotrocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msgotrocks)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/9 "2003-01-24T15:39:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by BKABBY \* > **We live in Michigan, but frequently go across the Detroit-Windsor border into Canada for the casino/cheap booze… We are all American citizens, but one of the people going with us is pregnant.** You’re taking pregnant chicks to Canada for gambling and cheap booze?! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/10 "2003-01-24T15:40:11Z")
Martin Van Buren was the first President born in the United States, by definition. ---
**Author:** ![KenP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c0e974/32.png) [@KenP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KenP)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/11 "2003-01-24T17:20:25Z")
Although Chester A. Arthur gave Fairfield, Vermont, as his birthplace, some have alleged that he was actually born several miles north, in Quebec. Apparently, his parents lived in the woods, sometimes N and sometimes S of the border. Sorry, no cite. ---
**Author:** ![KenP](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c0e974/32.png) [@KenP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KenP)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/12 "2003-01-24T17:34:20Z")
OK, here’s a cite: [http://www.coolquiz.com/trivia/canada/president.asp](http://www.coolquiz.com/trivia/canada/president.asp) It says, “Burke’s Presidential Families of the United States of America says that despite the official birthplace, Arthur ‘was probably born in Canada.’ Other sources make the same claim, almost off-handedly, but argue that since his parents were U.S citizens Arthur’s eligibility for the presidency wasn’t challenged. His eligibility was challenged in 1880 when Arthur was the vice-presidential candidate running with James Garfield. According to Thomas C. Reeves, a biographer of Arthur, the Democrats hired a New York attorney named Arthur Hinman to explore these rumors and make a report. Hinman alleged that Arthur was born in Quebec his grandparents’ house. Hinman says Arthur’s mother often visited her parents in Dunham, Quebec. Another biographer, George Howe, describes this theory as ‘an interesting hoax’ that received little attention at the time.” ---
**Author:** ![plnnr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@plnnr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/plnnr)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/13 "2003-01-24T17:36:20Z")
A thread that mentions my two favorite Presidents: Van Buren and Arthur. A red letter day. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/14 "2003-01-24T18:34:39Z")
It was bad enough that Arthur was born in Vermont. That’s barely a state! It’s the Delaware of New England! ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/15 "2003-01-24T18:49:20Z")
Apropos of nothing in particular, there was some speculation as to whether Barry Goldwater was eligible to be elected president, as he was born in the Arizona Territory before it became a state. ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Gary\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_T)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/16 "2003-01-24T18:56:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > \*\*Apropos of nothing in particular, there was some speculation as to whether Barry Goldwater was eligible to be elected president, as he was born in the Arizona Territory before it became a state. \*\* **yojimboguy** mentioned that also, but I would think that was addressed by this part of the law Philbuck cited: \*Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year \* ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/17 "2003-01-24T20:40:23Z")
John McCain was born in the Canal Zone, and no one has questioned his eligibility to be president. We won’t get a definitive answer unless or until a borderline case is litigated, but the interpretation put forth by **Philbuck’s** cite would seem to be the common-sense way to go. ---
**Author:** ![Agback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/977dab/32.png) [@Agback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agback)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/18 "2003-01-24T21:54:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by censored \* > \*\*One of the criteria for being President is being born in the US. For example…associated cabinet members (like Albright or Kissenger) that were not born in the US would be excluded from the Presidential succession list. \*\* Incorrect. The Constitutional criterion is being a _native-born citizen of the US_. It excludes naturalised citizens, but includes the children of US citizens where-ever they are born. Regards, Agback ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/19 "2003-01-24T22:16:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jklann \* > \*\*John McCain was born in the Canal Zone, and no one has questioned his eligibility to be president. We won’t get a definitive answer unless or until a borderline case is litigated, but the interpretation put forth by **Philbuck’s** cite would seem to be the common-sense way to go. \*\* If he wins a presidential election, you can bet the Democrats WILL challenge his eligibility. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572/20 "2003-01-24T22:20:04Z")
It would be more likely that the Republicans would want to challenge McCain’s eligibility. There were plenty of opportunities to do so during the 2000 campaign. McCain would not be a borderline case. He was born in a U.S. territory. The borderline cases will be people born on foreign soil, but of U.S. citizens. And I believe that any such challenge would come up during the campaign, not after the election. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/foreigners-becoming-president-of-the-usa/150572.md?page=2)