# Forged Ballots Headed for Florida in 2000, and for Ohio in 2004? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2005, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542 "2005-12-14T05:02:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wake\_up\_call](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dec6dc/32.png) [@Wake\_up\_call](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wake_up_call)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/1 "2005-12-14T05:02:17Z")
Suppose, for a second, that Iran did not do what [this article](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/14/international/middleeast/14iraq.html)says, and let us replace a few words in the article. Now you be the judge: \*\*Forged Ballots Headed to Florida in 2000, and for Ohio in 2004 \*\* Washington DC, Dec. 13 - Less than two days before nationwide elections, the PDWR (Private Detectives Watching the Republicans) seized several SUVs that had just crossed Florida and Ohio state lines (in 2000 and 2004 respectively) filled with thousands of forged ballots, an unnamed “Deep Throat” said. The SUVs were seized in the evening by Democratic Party detectives who were paid to remain silent about the incident. According to independent sources, several thousand partly completed ballots were found inside the SUVs. The official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly, said the Republicans’ SUV driver told the police under interrogation that at least three other SUVs filled with ballots had crossed to Florida and Ohio at different spots along the State lines. The official, who did not attend the interrogation, said he did not know where the driver was headed, or what he intended to do with the ballots. The seizure of the SUVs came at a delicate time in Republican’s narrow win in the elections of 2000 and 2004. The Republicans say that the Democrats are merely making up these stories, and that they do not really represent the majority of Americans. The Democrats say that the Republican agents are deeply involved in trying to influence events in the US, by funneling money to their party’s candidates, and by sponsoring Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Riley, Pat Robertson et al – who are bedeviling the country. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/2 "2005-12-14T08:31:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Now you be the judge: _Guilty!_ Not guilty? I’m-- I’m so confused. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/3 "2005-12-14T11:10:57Z")
\ Do get over it. The Democrats lost both elections. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/4 "2005-12-14T12:25:51Z")
> [@Wake up call](#): > > Now you be the judge Okay. There will be a fifteen minute recess while I consider the merits of this case. RACE YA TO THE SWINGSET!! ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/5 "2005-12-14T14:05:17Z")
Democratic Detectives? What the hell are those? If they’re not duly deputized police, they’d have no right to seize an SUV in the first place. And if they ARE police, they work for their local jurisdiction, not for the Democratic Party. And in any event, the Iranians HATE Bush. Why would they, of all people, throw the election to him? Okay, I’m off to the swingset myself. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/6 "2005-12-14T14:12:16Z")
While re-writing a newspaper article may be considered “creative,” this doesn’t belong in Cafe Society. I’m moving it to Great Debates, where they’ve been sick of this discussion for five years. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/7 "2005-12-14T14:21:35Z")
Sure–but suppose, for a second, that **Wake Up Call** did not do what [this post says](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=349474), and let us replace a few words from the post. Now you be the judge: Thou speak’st aright; I am that merry wanderer of the night. I jest to Oberon and make him smile When I a fat and bean-fed horse beguile, Neighing in likeness of a filly foal: And sometime lurk I in a gossip’s bowl, In very likeness of a roasted crab, And when she drinks, against her lips I bob And on her wither’d dewlap pour the ale. The wisest aunt, telling the saddest tale, Sometime for three-foot stool mistaketh me; Then slip I from her bum, down topples she, And ‘tailor’ cries, and falls into a cough; And then the whole quire hold their hips and laugh, And waxen in their mirth and neeze and swear A merrier hour was never wasted there. Coincidence? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/8 "2005-12-14T14:28:58Z")
Waitaminute…hold on. I just realized that when I change words in someone else’s writings, I can completely change the meaning, and make the passage totally irrelevant. Scratch that last post, sorry! Daniel ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/9 "2005-12-14T16:17:09Z")
So, wait… you took a newspaper article, switched a few words around, posted it and cried out “See???” Uh… see _what_, exactly? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/10 "2005-12-14T16:30:16Z")
I like this part the best: > [@Wake up call](#): > > The Democrats say that the Republican agents are deeply involved in trying to influence events in the US, by funneling money to their party’s candidates, and by sponsoring Rush Limbaugh, Bill O’Riley, Pat Robertson et al – who are bedeviling the country. The nerve of those Republicans, trying to “influence events in the US.” They should stay in their own country… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/11 "2005-12-14T16:35:50Z")
Methinks **Wake up call** needs a wake up call. Those elections are history. Since this thread was started in CS, here’s a little snippet from an Eagles tune for ya’: _Victim of this Victim of that Your mama’s too thin and your daddy’s too fat Get over it, get over it…_ ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/12 "2005-12-14T16:47:27Z")
How could ballots in the same SUV be for an election in 2000 and also in 2004. Were the ballots seized in Florida in 2000 and, by some miracle, the nefarious Republicans somehow knew what the 2004 Ohio ballots would look like and put them in the same SUV? Or were the ballots seized in 2004 and the SUVs that were carrying them also carrying Florida ballots form 2000? Your post makes absolutely no sense, **WakeupCall**. Plus, there is nothing to “judge” since there is no argument being made. ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/13 "2005-12-14T17:18:25Z")
> [@Wake up call](#): > > … let **us** replace a few words in the article. Emphasis mine. Let _us_ replace some words? OK. My turn. \*\*Whiny Posts Headed Headed to SDMB in 2000-2005 \*\* Washington DC, Dec. 13 - Less than two seconds after George W. Bush won the 2000 presidential reace, the PDWR (Pouty Democrats Whining Relentlessly) seized several perfectly good threads to be posted on the SDMB and filled them with thousands of pointless complaints and hysterical rants, an unnamed lurker said. The threads were seized by Republican Party posters, who had a good laugh at them before ignoring them and thus remained silent about the incident. According to independent sources, several thousand partly completed posts were found in the cache of the whiners who couldn’t scrape up the courage to click ‘Submit’. The lurker, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly, said the Democratic posters told several regular readers and lurkers of the SDMB that the Republicans stole the last two presidential elections. The lurker, who was not sure what point the posters were trying to make, said he did not know what the posters meant, or what they intended to accomplish with their incessant pouty posts. The seizure of the threads came at an interesting time in Republican’s narrow win in the elections of 2000. The Democrats say that the Republicans are destroying the country, but the Democrats do not really represent the majority of Americans. The Democrats say a lot of ridiculous things lately, but their pessimistic pronouncements thankfully have very little influence on actual events in the US. They instead waste their time praising Air America, who might theoretically be bedeviling the country, assuming someone was actually listening to it. See? It’s just as ridiculous (if not more so) when I do it. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/14 "2005-12-14T18:28:06Z")
> [@Wake up call](#): > > Suppose, for a second, that Iran did not do what [this article](http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/14/international/middleeast/14iraq.html)says, and let us replace a few words in the article. Now you be the judge: > > \*\*Forged Ballots Headed to Florida in 2000, and for Ohio in 2004 \*\* > > Washington DC, Dec. 13 - Less than two days before nationwide elections, the PDWR (Private Detectives Watching the Republicans) seized several SUVs that had just crossed Florida and Ohio state lines (in 2000 and 2004 respectively) filled with thousands of forged ballots, an unnamed “Deep Throat” said. Don’t be ridiculous. Why would the Republicans go through all the trouble of forging ballots when Diebold is already [giving](http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/15595.html) them machines specifically designed to allow cheating? ---
**Author:** ![Henry-Finland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e99b99/32.png) [@Henry-Finland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henry-Finland)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/15 "2005-12-14T19:45:39Z")
> [@ITR champion](#): > > Don’t be ridiculous. Why would the Republicans go through all the trouble of forging ballots when Diebold is already [giving](http://www.bbvforums.org/cgi-bin/forums/board-auth.cgi?file=/1954/15595.html) them machines specifically designed to allow cheating? **Right you are!** Why does so few US citizens know about this? Or is there something unclear? :eek: Have you known this before? About that the Diebold voting equipment can be hacked by hundreds of people. Within about one minute, with equipment that costs less than 500 dollars through the Internet. How come that we discuss so much about democracy and nobody care when there is some problems in it? Henry ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/16 "2005-12-14T20:10:20Z")
> [@Henry-Finland](#): > > Why does so few US citizens know about this? It’s that damn liberal media. :rolleyes: Another item you may have missed: [Securities Fraud Litigation Filed Against Diebold](http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00002153.htm) – allegations of fraud, insider trading, manipulation of stock prices, concealment of known flaws in voting machines. Coming just one day after [Diebold CEO resigns amid challenges of reliability, security, violations in the company’s election systems products,](http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/051212/clm060.html?.v=31) too… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/17 "2005-12-15T05:11:32Z")
> [@Henry-Finland](#): > > **Right you are!** > > Why does so few US citizens know about this? > > Or is there something unclear? :eek: > > Have you known this before? About that the Diebold voting equipment can be hacked by hundreds of people. This subject was beaten to death on these boards both before and after the election. 'Twould seem that the main problem is, in spite of in-depth investigations, that there is _absolutely no evidence_ that even one single vote was altered. There is no indication that anyone tried to alter _one single vote_. Whining about possible vote fraud in the past election is just like whining about the mafia whacking JFK. Nice theory, but no evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Henry-Finland](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e99b99/32.png) [@Henry-Finland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henry-Finland)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/18 "2005-12-15T05:25:23Z")
> [@John Carter of Mars](#): > > This subject was beaten to death on these boards both before and after the election. > > 'Twould seem that the main problem is, in spite of in-depth investigations, that there is _absolutely no evidence_ that even one single vote was altered. There is no indication that anyone tried to alter _one single vote_. > > Whining about possible vote fraud in the past election is just like whining about the mafia whacking JFK. Nice theory, but no evidence. As we can see, the knowledge is quite low. **It was proven last spring and it was proven yesterday:** It is proven that hundreds of persons could have changed the ballots, without a trail. If that does not disturbe you, I do not know what to say, because it would mean that you do not care about the next election. _ **You are not disturbed by the fact that some African states has a reliable voting system, but US has not?** _ With Diebold anyone; democrat, republican, libertian, etc. can change the result and there is no way to see it later. Do you want links? Henry ---
**Author:** ![Hail\_Ants](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/dc4da7/32.png) [@Hail\_Ants](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hail_Ants)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/19 "2005-12-15T06:45:38Z")
The real travesty would have been all the baby ducks those evil, evil SUVs would have run over… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542/20 "2005-12-15T06:54:56Z")
> [@Henry-Finland](#): > > Do you want links? > Henry No, thank you. I have read quite enough on the matter. Unless, of course, you have a link to an un-biased cite (not a blog) that has hard evidence that votes were actually tampered with. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-headed-for-florida-in-2000-and-for-ohio-in-2004/335542.md?page=2)