# Forged ballots seized at Iraq-Iran border? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 14, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-seized-at-iraq-iran-border/335625 "2005-12-14T19:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-seized-at-iraq-iran-border/335625/1 "2005-12-14T19:48:17Z")
According to one report, Iraqi border police have seized several thousand forged ballots being smuggled in from Iran; the Iranian truck driver told them at least three other trucks full of ballots had made it across the border. [http://www.woai.com/news/national/story.aspx?content\_id=8CD7878F-4704-4455-8DB8-FBA1BC472791](http://www.woai.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=8CD7878F-4704-4455-8DB8-FBA1BC472791) However, the head of Iraqi border security is completely denying the story: [http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051214/wl\_nm/iraq\_election\_ballots\_dc\_2](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051214/wl_nm/iraq_election_ballots_dc_2) Iraqi parliamentary elections are scheduled for tomorrow (Thursday 12/16/05). So, did this really happen, or not? If it did, what are the implications? Is the Iranian government trying to influence the election? If so, why? How will this affect the perceived legitimacy of the results? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-seized-at-iraq-iran-border/335625/2 "2005-12-14T20:06:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > According to one report, Iraqi border police have seized several thousand forged ballots being smuggled in from Iran; the Iranian truck driver told them at least three other trucks full of ballots had made it across the border. [http://www.woai.com/news/national/story.aspx?content\_id=8CD7878F-4704-4455-8DB8-FBA1BC472791](http://www.woai.com/news/national/story.aspx?content_id=8CD7878F-4704-4455-8DB8-FBA1BC472791) > > However, the head of Iraqi border security is completely denying the story: [http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051214/wl\_nm/iraq\_election\_ballots\_dc\_2](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20051214/wl_nm/iraq_election_ballots_dc_2) > > Iraqi parliamentary elections are scheduled for tomorrow (Thursday 12/16/05). > > So, did this really happen, or not? If it did, what are the implications? Is the Iranian government trying to influence the election? If so, why? How will this affect the perceived legitimacy of the results? I heard on NPR that it was the Interior Ministry that was denying the story, that the border guard stands by the story and is searchning for the three other trucks. I’m really dubious about the Interior Ministry. They’re the ones who were running those two prisons we’ve discovered where people are being tortured. Smells corrupt to me. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-seized-at-iraq-iran-border/335625/3 "2005-12-14T20:07:41Z")
It’s ben reported that the borders were closed, though, so I’m inclined to believe them. Unless, of course, they were trying to sneak past, but I haven’t seen that reported. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-seized-at-iraq-iran-border/335625/4 "2005-12-14T20:13:05Z")
> [@smiling bandit](#): > > It’s ben reported that the borders were closed, though, so I’m inclined to believe them. “Them” who? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-seized-at-iraq-iran-border/335625/5 "2005-12-14T20:53:40Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Is the Iranian government trying to influence the election? If so, why? Well, why they’d want to influence the election is obvious…to get a pro-Iranian government elected. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-seized-at-iraq-iran-border/335625/6 "2005-12-14T20:56:55Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Well, why they’d want to influence the election is obvious…to get a pro-Iranian government elected. It is almost certain a Shi’ite majority parliament will be elected and many of the groups in it will be political Islamists and pro-Iranian. Why meddle? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-seized-at-iraq-iran-border/335625/7 "2005-12-14T21:18:42Z")
To have more Islamists and fewer secularists? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2005, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-seized-at-iraq-iran-border/335625/8 "2005-12-14T22:56:37Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > To have more Islamists and fewer secularists? If there was a betting pool that would be where I’d put my money. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-seized-at-iraq-iran-border/335625/9 "2005-12-15T06:05:58Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It is almost certain a Shi’ite majority parliament will be elected and many of the groups in it will be political Islamists and pro-Iranian… And when this happens > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > …How will this affect the perceived legitimacy of the results? we can blame the Iranians, and continue to claim that Iraq wants to be a Western style democracy, despite the results of the election. It’s win/win for the Bush administration! ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-seized-at-iraq-iran-border/335625/10 "2005-12-15T14:15:38Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It is almost certain a Shi’ite majority parliament will be elected and many of the groups in it will be political Islamists and pro-Iranian. Why meddle? I don’t think many in the Middle East “get” democracy. Then again, US Republicans clearly don’t “get” democracy either, so you can hardly blame the Iranians for not getting it. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forged-ballots-seized-at-iraq-iran-border/335625/11 "2005-12-15T15:07:07Z")
> [@Evil Captor](#): > > I don’t think many in the Middle East “get” democracy. Which is why we have things like [Iraqi men who insist on casting ballots for their wives and daughters](http://www.iwpr.net/?p=icr&s=f&o=258643&apc_state=henh): > [@](#): > > “I voted for my wife and all of my family members, because our traditions don’t allow women to take part in such activities,” said Faris Abdullah Hassan, a 35-year-old who works at odd jobs in Haweeja, in northern Iraq’s Kirkuk province. “The security situation is bad, and I can’t risk my family’s life.” > > In Tikrit, a Sunni Arab stronghold in Salahaddin province and the home of Saddam Hussein, United States military helicopters hover above the city to monitor security and watch for insurgents. Although Tikrit now counts as a relatively stable, many residents reported that men cast ballots for women because they feared violence at the polls. > > “I can go downtown whenever I want, but on referendum day my husband wouldn’t let me,” said Amal Abdul-Jabbar, a mother of five in Tikrit. “He voted for me.” I also heard a report about one Iraqi businessman who said he was “too busy to vote, my brother is voting for me”. Clearly, there is a different understanding of democracy in Iraq.