# Forget Immigration Hell; Screw the House, and Screw the Senate, Too! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 8, 2006, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803 "2006-04-08T01:16:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/21 "2006-04-08T06:42:03Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > I’m claiming that we sure don’t fucking know what the percentages are. Plenty of people are against this that are US citizens, even if they bear similar physical characteristics of most illegal aliens. And plenty of them marched. For not knowing percentages, you’re quick to say how many are in a group. It doesn’t matter how many march. It doesn’t matter how many go on TV. It doesn’t matter how many flee school to protest. There is a thing called Immigration Law. There is a federal apparatus in place to allow people to apply for citizenship. There is a way for foreigners to gain legal access to this country for work. You know this. And you know there are legal ways to gain access. There are also illegal ways to gain access. And that’s the argument. It’s not about percentages. It’s about the laws in place for people coming here. Immigration laws have been in place for well over a century. There are laws for people that want to enter. If you break the law, you get punished. If you know it’s illegal to come to the US under the cover of darkness while trying to avoid the Border Patrol because you know what you’re doing is illegal, don’t fucking march in the street demanding your rights! I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. America was built on immigrants. (Gotta give a shout-out to Natives, of course, here’s to another casino). If you’re coming here illegaly, then expect education, health care, employment, social security and medicare, fuck you. If you’re here illegally, be grateful for what you’re given. It’s a shitload more than a lot of verterans’ get. And they don’t have the sympathy from many than you get. (Save for a few around here in the past few years) ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/22 "2006-04-08T06:44:57Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > I’m claiming that we sure don’t fucking know what the percentages are. Plenty of people are against this that are US citizens, even if they bear similar physical characteristics of most illegal aliens. And plenty of them marched. Heck, I was out there, just to take the political temperature (not like I could avoid it anyway - there were [somewhere between 50,000 and 100,000 people](http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=local&id=3980377) marching within shouting distance of my office, on a Friday at lunchtime.) I’m sure someone or another thought I was an illegal alien; I get mistaken for Hispanic all the time (I’m not). (By the way, what was the second most common nationality in Chicago Immigration Court of people in deportation proceedings? Poles. Mirrors the local immigrant population - whodathunk it?) ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/23 "2006-04-08T06:48:54Z")
Wow. That’s a lot of hard-working immigrants marching on a Friday afternoon. Were they on strike? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/24 "2006-04-08T06:49:02Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > I know people are going to call me racist on this. I don’t care, because you’re wrong. We have immigration laws that apply to Europeans as well. Just because they have to sail an ocean doesn’t give them any more right to be here illegaly than someone from Mexico or Central America. Excuse me, I was saying goodnight to some straight A American students that had a father that was once an illegal, I’m currently visiting relatives in California, that is why I can not reply as often, being not afraid of being called a racist is the least of your problems **duffer** , you are not a racist, only inhuman. > [@duffer](#): > > Huh? Illegal aliens. Illegal. Where is the argument? I know some are affected by lawbreakers, but that’s waht lawbreakers do. > > I’m sure any one of us could go into any county jail and find someone with a spouse or child. Why deny them a parent or spouse? Doesn’t matter if they broke the law. They have a loved one that wants that person home. > > Screw it. You break the law, you get a free pass so long as somebody doesn’t want you taken away from them? > > OK. Immigration law doesn’t count. It’s an inconvenient crime so we shouldn’t enforce it. > > So instead of repealing the laws, let’s make some new laws. Those laws weaken the existing laws, which basically make the existing laws pointless. > > Repeal the laws or enforce the ones in place. That’s all I’m asking for. > > Making new law is pointless. The ones in effect aren’t enough to enforce, so repeal them. Or let everyone feel good about making new laws that sound good. Either way it’s the same real-world problem. It’s all shit anyway. > > Nothing is going to change no matter what happens to get passed. Even I’m not dumb enough to think otherwise. I just wish people calling for reform of law would realize the law they want reformed isn’t really being enforced to begin with. Gee, I wonder if you learned something about prohibition, indeed when laws are not enforced one has to react with the abolition of them, but even the prohibition of alcohol showed that abolishing a law did not mean a free for all: **some restrictions remain** , and so it will with the people that some foolishly want to keep illegal. > [@magellan01](#): > > Look, numnuttier, I agreed, and agree, with that point. 100%. Reread the post. Read what you posted you sorry joker, you mentioned that what some senators did yesterday was protecting our borders, if you agree 100% that that is not so, stop saying that they **are** ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/25 "2006-04-08T06:50:07Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > For not knowing percentages, you’re quick to say how many are in a group. > > **Like you.** > > It doesn’t matter how many march. It doesn’t matter how many go on TV. It doesn’t matter how many flee school to protest. > > There is a thing called Immigration Law. There is a federal apparatus in place to allow people to apply for citizenship. There is a way for foreigners to gain legal access to this country for work. > > You know this. And you know there are legal ways to gain access. > > There are also illegal ways to gain access. And that’s the argument. > > It’s not about percentages. It’s about the laws in place for people coming here. Immigration laws have been in place for well over a century. > > There are laws for people that want to enter. If you break the law, you get punished. If you know it’s illegal to come to the US under the cover of darkness while trying to avoid the Border Patrol because you know what you’re doing is illegal, don’t fucking march in the street demanding your rights! > > **It’s a free country. People can protest. You want to change that?** > > I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. America was built on immigrants. (Gotta give a shout-out to Natives, of course, here’s to another casino). If you’re coming here illegaly, then expect education, health care, employment, social security and medicare, fuck you. > > **So you don’t want to provide public education to all children? Aid to pregnant mothers (WIC)? And indegent care? These are the only Goddamn things that illegals are eligible for.** > > If you’re here illegally, be grateful for what you’re given. It’s a shitload more than a lot of verterans’ get. And they don’t have the sympathy from many than you get. (Save for a few around here in the past few years) > > **Bullshit. That’s simply not true.** Responces in bold. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/26 "2006-04-08T06:52:31Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > There is a thing called Immigration Law. There is a federal apparatus in place to allow people to apply for citizenship. There is a way for foreigners to gain legal access to this country for work. > > You know this. And you know there are legal ways to gain access. I hear this all the time - “why can’t they just wait their turn in line, like everyone else?” How many of you understadn that without a preexisting close family relationship or employment relationship with a US citizen, permanent resident, or company, **you can’t even get in the goddamn line?** And even if you are lucky enough to get in the line, the wait can be years long, or even decades? [Look at the immigrant visa bulletin;](http://www.travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_2868.html) the wait for a Mexican who is the unmarried son or daughter of a U.S. citizen (just to take one example) is **fifteen years long.** > [@](#): > > It’s not about percentages. It’s about the laws in place for people coming here. Immigration laws have been in place for well over a century. Yeah, and until 1953 there was an immigration law that Asians were not racially eligible to naturalize. Do you think that one was a good idea, too? ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/27 "2006-04-08T06:54:05Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Wow. That’s a lot of hard-working immigrants marching on a Friday afternoon. Were they on strike? You can be Hispanic and have an accent and not be an immigrant, legal or illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/28 "2006-04-08T06:54:25Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Wow. That’s a lot of hard-working immigrants marching on a Friday afternoon. Were they on strike? You know, not everyone works 9 - to - 5 jobs in an office, and I dare say people working in low-level menial service jobs are more likely than most to be working weekends and odd shifts. Did you sprain anything jumping to that conclusion? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/29 "2006-04-08T07:32:34Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Read what you posted you sorry joker, you mentioned that what some senators did yesterday was protecting our borders, if you agree 100% that that is not so, stop saying that they **are** Here is the original exchange: > [@Eva Luna](#): > > As I write this, our elected representatives have just given up and recessed for Easter to go home and spend time with their families (and hopefully, to get an earful frm their constituents). > [@magellan01](#): > > Despicable. We agree. How in your twisted mind do you interpret that to mean I think that the senators actions resulted in protecting our borders? And I can’t even understand the last part of your sentence. Care to clarify, you numnuttier joker, you? ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/30 "2006-04-08T07:46:58Z")
Well, since I’m completely wrong. I’ll bow out of this thread and stew in my unmitigated hated of brown people. It doesn’t affect me, so my opinion doesn’t count. Sorry for sticking my nose into matters that don’t affect me. I’ll sit back and gauge my opinion on what the majority here deems correct. And don’t start in on any snide remarks. I’ve been proven wrong. I’ll accept the fate I’m dealt. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/31 "2006-04-08T07:52:21Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > …Even the INS trial attorneys knew they were beating their heads against the wall, fighting as hard as they did to get people deported; most deportation orders are never enforced because of lack of manpower and detention space, among other things. By orders of magnitude. > > So you think increasing the scope of the issue by additional orders of magnitude is magically going to fix everything? I hear there’s a lovely bridge in Brooklyn you might want to consider purchasing. It is true that one of the main problems has been a lack of manpower to enforce our immigration laws. But that stems from a lack of will. I say now we remedy both. Muster the will and hire as many people as takes. Although I would start by imposing strong sanctions on employers and securing the border to prevent the illegal numbers from growing further. > [@Eva Luna](#): > > The main fucking point of my rant has to do with _legal_ immigration of _highly skilled_ people. I work in-house these days for one of the largest companies in the world - we don’t knowingly hire people who are in the U.S. illegally. I understood that. You also mentioned illegal immigration, which is by far the larger problem. I’m all for making special allowances for those with special skills. > [@Eva Luna](#): > > …And yet the reforms that would mean they aren’t left dangling for years and years on end until their green cards are approved, green cards on which my employer expends considerable financial and organizational resources, are tied up in the same fucking bill(s) that Congress is blowing off right now to go on vacation. I agree that legal immigration policy needs to be fixed. And, as I’ve said, Congress shold have stayed to fix it. > [@Eva Luna](#): > > Illegal immigration is a separate issue, one which you might have more empathy for if you’d ever tried to survive in, say, a village in the Guatemalan highlands. Try it sometime; it might prove educational. Or perhaps you’d prefer somewhere more exciting, like Iraq or Sudan? What’s your point? I am well aware of the poverty in the world. I completely understand why people would want to come here. Thing is, they need permission to come. If they get it and come here legally I welcome them with open arms. It has been my experience that immigrants exemplify the spirit of hard work and resourcefulness that we used to equate with the great things that help build this country. But not everyone can come here. And we have the right to identify who, how many, and when. Or do you deny the concept of nationhood and the idea of borders that it necessitates? > [@Eva Luna](#): > > The quotas for legal, employment-based immigration aren’t coming close to meeting the demand; the FY 2006 H-1B work visa quota was met in mid-August, before the fiscal year even began, and green card backlogs for most employment-based categories are 3 - 5 years and up. And that’s AFTER employers have gone through an exhaustive process of documenting the lack of qualified U.S. workers for the position. As I’ve said, the system for legal immigration needs to be improved. But your experience is unlike that of my last employer. They were continually hiring highly-skilled people from Europe. I think everything, from interview to on the job was done in a few months, definitely under six. > [@Eva Luna](#): > > And Jesucristo, are you completely incapable of empathy? Why do you think _your_ ancestors came here, because things were just peachy at home? No, they came here—legally—to have a better life. As far as the illegals, do you just ignore the fact of their illegallity completely? Seriously. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/32 "2006-04-08T08:00:49Z")
**Unregistered Bull** , you took issue with this statement: > [@duffer](#): > > We saw thousands of openly illegals marching publicly. And when I questioned you about your objection, you offer: > [@](#): > > I’m claiming that we sure don’t fucking know what the percentages are. Plenty of people are against this that are US citizens, even if they bear similar physical characteristics of most illegal aliens. And plenty of them marched. So, are you of the opinion that thousands of illegals _didn’t_ march? If so what do you base that on? What would you say the range, percent wise, was between legals and illegals? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/33 "2006-04-08T08:09:51Z")
Tell you what. Let’s be fair. Let us have the USA’s immigration policy mirror that of the migrant’s home nation. So, for Mexicans, we’d treat them like Mexico does the even poorer migrants from Central America. Fair dinkum? How could El Presidente Fox argue with that? :rolleyes: (For those of you that don’t know, Mexico is _extremely_ harsh in it’s immigration polcies. If the USA treated \*it’s \*“Illegals” like Mexico does the Central Americans, there wouldn’t be any Illegals marching. But you know- “Don’t do as I do, do as I say” :rolleyes: ) My solution? Guest Worker permits- all you want. And, a MUCH better wall, so that the drugs, criminals & terrorists are kept out. Thus, although permanment migration to the USA would be kept to the current quota, Canadians & Mexicans could come here on a temporary basis for work. ---
**Author:** ![Gladstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/90db22/32.png) [@Gladstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gladstone)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/34 "2006-04-08T08:13:18Z")
> [@Eva Luna](#): > > Wrongo. All the proposals I’m aware of still involve eligible applicants having to clear background checks before receiving their visas and/or green cards, just as is the case with any applicant now. I was responding to the idea that some people have of just declaring a mass amnesty or legalization for every employed undocumented immigrant. I don’t know if that is precisely what **GIGObuster** was proposing, but it seemed that way. > [@](#): > > Background clearances are the most common cause I see for cases being delayed past normal processing times (which stretches into years in many green card cases, anyway). I am very much aware of that. I am helping several undocumented people prepare VAWA self-petitions, which are processed almost instantaneously compared to most other forms. By the time they finally adjust, one or two years will probably have passed. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/35 "2006-04-08T08:26:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Tell you what. Let’s be fair. Let us have the USA’s immigration policy mirror that of the migrant’s home nation. So, for Mexicans, we’d treat them like Mexico does the even poorer migrants from Central America. Fair dinkum? How could El Presidente Fox argue with that? :rolleyes: In case anyone misses the point. Lots of cash infused into the Mexican economy is paid to those that help illegals cross the border. And all that cash being sent to Mexico by illegals in the US that aren’t making enough to live a life above deepest poverty. Part of the Mexican economy is being supported by illegals making shit wages here. They are making enough to send “home”, but the rest of us have to pick up the tab for health and education benefits? And the Mexican Government actively supports teaching the citizens how to successfully jump the border? The Mexican government is encouraging Mexicans to leave. I’ll leave it at that. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/36 "2006-04-08T16:11:40Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > **Unregistered Bull** , you took issue with this statement: > > And when I questioned you about your objection, you offer: > > So, are you of the opinion that thousands of illegals _didn’t_ march? If so what do you base that on? What would you say the range, percent wise, was between legals and illegals? I have no idea. I’'m sure that there were some. You had 500,000 in a LA street. I do believe that they were a minority of the marchers. If you 500,000 gun owners in the street protesting gun laws, then you could easily get thousands of people in violation of those laws, I suppose. You couldn’t prove it by looking at them though. And it would be no reason to round them up like cattle for the BATFE to go through. In the case of people marching against a draconian piece of immigration legislation (not the legislation that ended up being scuttled BTW), there would be no reason to round them up like cattle for INS to go through (or microchip and catapult them all back to Old Mexico [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7258253&postcount=192](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7258253&postcount=192)[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7258269&postcount=193](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7258269&postcount=193) ). ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/37 "2006-04-08T16:18:14Z")
Illegals come to the US to find a better life, and jobs - just like all other immigrants thrughout the history of this country. They settle down, build a life, try to get by. Americans make money off them - big money I bet. There are check cashing places, phone cards, money transfers. things which “let” them keep in touch with and send money to family in Mexico. I bet these “services” tack on a fat fee. Employers make money off them too - off the books, low pay, no health or unemployment insurance, and ability to fire at will because they “have no rights”. Mexico has no interest in fixing things on their side of the fence because these people are sending what is effectively free money back to Mexico, and by crossing the border, are no longer a “drain” to them. Politicians alternately look the other way, or scream “da Messicans gonna take over”, depending on whether it is an elecion year, and if they need a “wedge issue”. Since it is always about the Mexicans, I suspect that the current “flap” is nothing more than an election year tactic, pandering to bigotry for votes. Why wasn’t this a burning issue last year, or the year before, or four years ago? Did billions of Mexicans suddenly start invading? Fix the old laws, enforce them more efficiently and equitably, and shorten that ridiculous 15 year wait that was quoted by someone else. To say “all you gotta do is become a citizen” is bullshit, if you then make it pretty impossible to become one. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/38 "2006-04-08T16:28:06Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > In case anyone misses the point. Lots of cash infused into the Mexican economy is paid to those that help illegals cross the border. And all that cash being sent to Mexico by illegals in the US that aren’t making enough to live a life above deepest poverty. > > **Deepest poverty? I kind of doubt that they would send money back if they all lived in deepest poverty.** > > Part of the Mexican economy is being supported by illegals making shit wages here. They are making enough to send “home”, but the rest of us have to pick up the tab for health and education benefits? > > **And there is conflicting evidence that if despite that, there is a net positive gain from having illegal aliens in the economy. And what is the average wage of illegal aliens? Is it really shit? I doubt that most Americans would do the work that they’re doing at least at the wage that they are paid, but are the wages universally that bad?** > > And the Mexican Government actively supports teaching the citizens how to successfully jump the border? > > The Mexican government is encouraging Mexicans to leave. I’ll leave it at that. **Maybe we should invade them?** **Kind of interesting that you’re going the poor little illegal immigrant route here BTW. It almost seems like you care about them like human beings.** ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/39 "2006-04-08T17:40:17Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > In the case of people marching against a draconian piece of immigration legislation (not the legislation that ended up being scuttled BTW), there would be no reason to round them up like cattle for INS to go through (or microchip and catapult them all back to Old Mexico [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7258253&postcount=192](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7258253&postcount=192)[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7258269&postcount=193](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=7258269&postcount=193) ). Hey, that’s not fair. The catapult idea was mine, but I can’t take credit for the microchip idea, as it came from another poster. Though, I did improve on it. Come to think of it, I might have also upgraded the catapult to a trebuchet to get the height needed to clear the wall. :rolleyes: But, just out of curiosity, why did you cite those remarks? Did you find them so funny (thank you) that you wanted to make sure the readers in this thread who might have not seen the other thread wouldn’t be deprived. That’s very considerate of you. If it turns into any paying work I’ll give you the usual 15% agent cut. Assuming you’re a citizen or here legally, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803/40 "2006-04-08T18:44:56Z")
It’s worth noting that while Bush of course puts all the blame on Reid for the bill being stalled, Reid’s actions seem totally reasonable. He just wanted assurances that after he agreed to the bill on the table, he wouldn’t be stabbed in the back by Frist, the House, and the President by having the conference bill end up totally different than what he had publically agreed to. Since such a stab in the back was exactly their plan, they blamed him for being obstructionist and not falling right into their plan. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-immigration-hell-screw-the-house-and-screw-the-senate-too/351803.md?page=3)