# Forget the Republicans. How do the Democrats change internally from here? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 4, 2010, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512 "2010-11-04T21:37:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/81 "2010-11-07T20:34:22Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > The Hard Left is really only 10-15% of the Democratic Party. The Hard, Tea Party, Right is only 10-15% of the Republican party. > > The vast middle is dissatisfied. The “vast middle” is made up of roughly equal portions of Democrats and GOPers, along with a lot of independents. But those are only the _party affiliations_ of this “vast middle”. If you examine the _political ideologies_ of this population they run on a continuum of: Centrist/Moderate ----\> Strong Right-Wing (going from Left to Right). I would say the Hard Left is about 1-3% of the Democratic Party, with the Strong Left consisting about 10%, and the Moderately-Left another 10-15%. The majority of the party is basically Left-Leaning to Centrist/Moderate. In the GOP, the Hard Right makes up about 30 - 40% (importantly, this group is only _partly_ “Tea-Partiers”–there are other components of the Hard Right), with the Strong Right numbering another 30 - 40%, and the small group leftover consisting of Moderately-Right to Right-Leaning. I know it’s tempting to try to see the GOP and the Democrats as having an equal number of extremists, but this simply isn’t the case because the Democrats are a Moderate party, while the GOP is a Right-Wing party. The only Left-Wing parties in the USA are insignificant, powerless “third parties” who are largely ignored. It is those tiny parties that contain the vast majority of the Hard Left, along with the tiny overall number of Extreme-Left voters. While there are also some small, insignificant Hard-Right parties, the GOP does a very good job of appealing to the majority of the Hard and Extreme-Right. So unless one is actively giving straight-arm salutes and living underground in a forest with only 1000 cans of pork n’ beans and 27 rifles for company, there is no need to flee the friendly GOP. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/82 "2010-11-07T21:06:20Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > So unless one is actively giving straight-arm salutes and living underground in a forest with only 1000 cans of pork n’ beans and 27 rifles for company, there is no need to flee the friendly GOP. And I’d say not even then. The GOP tent is large enough for all the crazy. ---
**Author:** ![boytyperanma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4491bb/32.png) [@boytyperanma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boytyperanma)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/83 "2010-11-07T22:30:25Z")
Well if I accept whats being said in this thread as how the Democratic party changes from here, I expect no change. Rather then addressing issues in their own party, people would prefer to point fingers at the other one. This is a problem in both parties, and is why I continue to remain independent. If a party doesn’t have interest in addressing their own issues and becoming better why would I think they can do the same for America. Get your own house in order before you start complaining about the neighbors. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2010, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/84 "2010-11-07T23:57:39Z")
> [@boytyperanma](#): > > Well if I accept whats being said in this thread as how the Democratic party changes from here, I expect no change. Rather then addressing issues in their own party, people would prefer to point fingers at the other one. > > This is a problem in both parties, and is why I continue to remain independent. If a party doesn’t have interest in addressing their own issues and becoming better why would I think they can do the same for America. > > Get your own house in order before you start complaining about the neighbors. I would make the point here that the results speaks loudly of many democrats sitting at home and not going to vote because they also saw their house in disorder. Unfortunately I can say also that most Republicans **do not care** at all that their house is in disorder (teabaggers will make sure the crazy ideas will come out of the House in record numbers) and yet republicans continue to vote for them. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/85 "2010-11-08T03:39:16Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > But such people are very rare nowadays, which should be good news–except, the reason they are rare is that most of the former “rational opposition” has been replaced by idiotic monkey-zombies clutching assault rifles with Bible verses etched in tiny (misspelled) writing on the barrels. Note that neither Der Trihs nor I are responsible for this characterization. This time. Kind of off the subject of the thread, really. I think the way forward for the Dems is to denounce McGovernite wuss-pacifism on the one hand & Harry Reid wuss moderation on the other. Be loud & proud. We’re here, yes we’re redistributionist, yes we believe in a strong regulatory state, why don’t you, _punk?_ Also lots of weapons. Politicians like voting for someone that they’re afraid will bust a cap in them if they step out of line. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/86 "2010-11-08T05:47:22Z")
> [@godix](#): > > Also, let me also repeat I am independent. No, you’re not. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/87 "2010-11-08T20:45:03Z")
> [@descamisado](#): > > declaring that he is a Muslim as an insult and a criticism, denigrating both his declared beliefs and Muslims worldwide? For the most part, I’m not gonna rehash what’s already been said. I think the dope is full of people who attack their opponents as demons and don’t realize what impression that gives to any who aren’t die hard liberals. You disagree. Fine, I’m not getting into that pissing match any further. However, for the part I quoted, I do not endorse that. Calling Obama a Muslim, as if that would be bad even if he were, disgusts me just as much as Aqua Buddha bullshit did. Few things are as good a barometer of stupidity as hearing the words ‘birth certificate’. But this thread isn’t about how Republicans can change, or even how politicians in general can change. It’s about how Democrats can change. Regardless of what the repubs do, the fact is, dems need to reach out to the middle of the nation. Barring extreme events, the party that reaches out to the middle of the nation beats the party that does not. The big tent wins, regardless of who’s tent it is. So when Democrats reach their hand out to independents, they need to resist the urge to put up the middle finger. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, you’re not. Not that it matters one way or another, but my voting record is: Clinton, Nader, Bush, and I passed on 08 because I thought both candidates were useless twits. I’m pro-gay rights, pro-gun, pro-choice, pro-Iraq war, believe the stimulus was a giant voter buyoff instead of a stimulus, wish that we got _REAL_ healthcare reform instead of the crap that passed, want smaller government, and am so far left on immigration that even democrats look like xenophobes to me. You can sum that all that up as whatever you want. I sum it up as I’m an independent. By the way, accusing me of lying about my politics instead of actually trying to address my point isn’t all that likely to change my mind that the Democrats have become the party of hatred and that’s what they need to change. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/88 "2010-11-08T20:51:18Z")
> [@godix](#): > > Regardless of what the repubs do, the fact is, dems need to reach out to the middle of the nation. Do you mean the middle class, or the ideological middle, or the geographical middle? Very different things, though for some reason often confused. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/89 "2010-11-08T21:26:42Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Do you mean the middle class, or the ideological middle, or the geographical middle? Very different things, though for some reason often confused. The people of the nation that do not strongly identify themselves as either Republican or Democrat and will switch which party they support from one election to another. The swing voters that put Democrats in charge of Congress in 06, Obama in the White House in 08, and just told Democrats to fuck themselves last week. Attacking the opposition doesn’t work well with those voters. Democrats need to quit crossing the line between “My oppositions policies are crap, and here’s why…” to “My opposition is a shithead” ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/90 "2010-11-08T22:19:42Z")
> [@godix](#): > > The people of the nation that do not strongly identify themselves as either Republican or Democrat and will switch which party they support from one election to another. The swing voters that put Democrats in charge of Congress in 06, Obama in the White House in 08, and just told Democrats to fuck themselves last week. Attacking the opposition doesn’t work well with those voters. Democrats need to quit crossing the line between “My oppositions policies are crap, and here’s why…” to “My opposition is a shithead” :dubious: **Democrats** need to quit crossing that line?! What’s the weather like on Bizarro-Earth this week?! ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/91 "2010-11-08T23:33:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: **Democrats** need to quit crossing that line?! What’s the weather like on Bizarro-Earth this week?! Yes, democrats need to quit crossing the line. For example, Democrats might want to reconsider the wisdom of calling people crazy. Especially when the people you’re calling crazy do not need the Democrat party, but the dems desperately need me and people who think like me. Unless, of course, you particularly enjoyed watching all those blue areas on the map turn red last Tuesday. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/92 "2010-11-08T23:53:12Z")
> [@godix](#): > > By the way, accusing me of lying about my politics instead of actually trying to address my point isn’t all that likely to change my mind that the Democrats have become the party of hatred and that’s what they need to change. Calling the Democrats the “party of hatred” while the Republicans are full of people who froth at the mouth and make veiled death threats about a “Second Amendment solution” is blatantly a right wing partisan stance. Claims of non-partisanship on your part contradict what you are actually saying. > [@godix](#): > > Yes, democrats need to quit crossing the line. For example, Democrats might want to reconsider the wisdom of calling people crazy. No, they shouldn’t (not that many are, they are too weak). Much of the Republican Party IS crazy; as in outright denying reality and believing utter nonsense. They qre also full of bigots. Any accurate description of the Republican Party is going to be insulting, because they are lunatics and scum; that’s their base, that’s who they depend on to get elected, the worst elements of America. > [@godix](#): > > Especially when the people you’re calling crazy do not need the Democrat party, but the dems desperately need me and people who think like me. Unless, of course, you particularly enjoyed watching all those blue areas on the map turn red last Tuesday. Why would I believe that you would vote Democrat under any circumstances? And the Democrats have tried sucking up to the Right for many years, and it’s done nothing but screw them over. And it was the most right wing Democrats who lost. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/93 "2010-11-09T00:20:27Z")
> [@godix](#): > > Yes, democrats need to quit crossing the line. For example, Democrats might want to reconsider the wisdom of calling people crazy. Especially when the people you’re calling crazy do not need the Democrat party, but the dems desperately need me and people who think like me. Unless, of course, you particularly enjoyed watching all those blue areas on the map turn red last Tuesday. Look, I’m not saying the Dems are innocent in this regard. But they are very definitely **far** more sinned against than sinning! ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/94 "2010-11-09T00:23:30Z")
> [@godix](#): > > the dems desperately need me and people who think like me. Think again. Did you notice how heavily the electoral axe fell upon democrats who were weak on healthcare reform? The Blue dogs were not just decimated, they were _halved_! **No one** wants a representive who claim he’s a Democrat, yet votes like a Republican. The time of the Blue-dog is passed. If people in the red areas of the nation want to vote for a Democrat, they’re just going to have to man-up, and vote for a _real_ democrat next time around. If not, then they can vote for a Republican. This “I wannabe democrat, if only they supported a return to the gold standard” stuff has got to stop. It’s bad for the party, and it’s bad for the nation. ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/95 "2010-11-09T03:06:58Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Look, I’m not saying the Dems are innocent in this regard. But they are very definitely **far** more sinned against than sinning! I’m curious, did you read the thread? Your post followed one that literally called half the nation bigots, lunatics, scum, and the worst element of America. I’m not exaggerating what he said, I’m quoting him. Do you seriously think people who see that, and that it happens all the time with half the board agreeing, are going to think that it’s the poor democrats being picked on by the big bad bully? Look, persecution complexes aside, think for a moment. When Der Trihs represents your views, and in many cases people like him are the public face of the Democrat party, there’s a public relations issue. That’s a problem you guys wanna work on. > [@Squink](#): > > Think again. > Did you notice how heavily the electoral axe fell upon democrats who were weak on healthcare reform? The Blue dogs were not just decimated, they were _halved_! Yes, and the reason is that the middle of America hates Pelosi and Reid. The only reason they survived is Pelosi is in a very safe district and Reid had the good fortune of a bad opponent. However, most blue dogs didn’t have the same safety/inept opponent. So Americans took out their frustrations on the party by getting rid of the blue dogs. If America could have gotten rid of Pelosi and Reid then they most certainly would have. Otherwise, how can you explain that nationwide both Pelosi and Reid have lower approval numbers than almost every blue dog that just lost? > [@](#): > > If people in the red areas of the nation want to vote for a Democrat, they’re just going to have to man-up, and vote for a _real_ democrat next time around. If not, then they can vote for a Republican. If you didn’t notice, they did vote for a Republican. The ‘fuck the moderates’ attitude just fucked the Democrats as a whole. Nice job. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/96 "2010-11-09T03:15:06Z")
\*\*‘America’ doesn’t live in the districts where Pelosi and Reid hang out. So I guess you Americans will have to elect some of your own democrat congress-critters, if you want to affect the leaderships political future. You didn’t. You dumped all your coservadems in favor of Republicans. That’s hardly a good reason for the liberals who remain in power to listen to what you want the party to do, now is it? ---
**Author:** ![godix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/278dde/32.png) [@godix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/godix)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/97 "2010-11-09T03:23:18Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > \*\*‘America’ doesn’t live in the districts where Pelosi and Reid hang out. So I guess you Americans will have to elect some of your own democrat congress-critters, if you want to affect the leaderships political future. You didn’t. You dumped all your coservadems in favor of Republicans. That’s hardly a good reason for the liberals who remain in power to listen to what you want the party to do, now is it? Depends, if you want to see Liberals reverse their fortunes and be able to pass ideas like health care, cap and trade, or whatever other policies you may endorse then yes, it actually is a pretty good reason to listen to the people who once supported you but don’t any longer. OTOH if you don’t want a prayer of implementing liberal ideas for years to come, keep doing what you’re doing. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/98 "2010-11-09T03:31:39Z")
> [@godix](#): > > Depends, if you want to see Liberals reverse their fortunes and be able to pass ideas like health care, cap and trade, or whatever other policies you may endorse then yes, it actually is a pretty good reason to listen to the people who once supported you but don’t any longer. > > OTOH if you don’t want a prayer of implementing liberal ideas for years to come, keep doing what you’re doing. Already the foretold plan from House Republicans is to defund health care and do an inquisition against climate researchers. So you will not see anything wrong with them doing that? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/99 "2010-11-09T03:43:05Z")
> [@godix](#): > > I’m curious, did you read the thread? Did **you** pay any attention at all to this campaign season? When it comes to “crossing the line between “My oppositions policies are crap, and here’s why…” to “My opposition is a shithead”,” the Dems are **definitely** more sinned against than sinning. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512/100 "2010-11-09T03:49:57Z")
> [@godix](#): > > to listen to the people who once supported you but don’t any longer.. If the guys they’re willing to elect won’t support the liberal democrat agenda, then you can’t really say they ever really supported the dems. They just voted for gophers with D’s after their names. There’s just no evidence of any real commitment to democratic principles from the folks who dumped their crummy blue dogs for even crummier tea party republicans. -by gophers, I mean gop-pers This computing device is a pain to edit on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/forget-the-republicans-how-do-the-democrats-change-internally-from-here/559512.md?page=6)