# Fork 5 - Fork Hillary. Fork her and all her flying monkeys. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 4, 2008, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725 "2008-06-04T05:58:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![neutron\_star](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/51bf81/32.png) [@neutron\_star](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neutron_star)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/101 "2008-06-05T01:56:11Z")
[About fucking time:](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080605/ap_on_el_pr/obama_clinton) > [@](#): > > The former first lady told House Democrats during a private conference call Wednesday that she will express support for Barack Obama’s candidacy and congratulate him for gathering the necessary delegates to be the party’s nominee. > > “Senator Clinton will be hosting an event in Washington, D.C., to thank her supporters and express her support for Senator Obama and party unity. This event will be held on Saturday to accommodate more of Senator Clinton’s supporters who want to attend,” her communications director Howard Wolfson said. > > Also in the speech, Clinton will urge once-warring Democrats to focus on the general election and defeating Republican presidential candidate John McCain. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/102 "2008-06-05T02:49:07Z")
[QUOTE=Beanpod] It was **supposed to be her night**. Amazing. That phrase doesn’t make her seem like a tantrum throwing child at all. With supporters like that, who needs an opponent? [/QUOTE] (bolding mine) It reminds me of that scene in _The West Wing_ when a rival Democratic candidate has not yet endorsed Bartlet, and there’s a big pow-wow with the major players. In a side room, Josh tells Amy “He’s taking the President’s votes!” Amy’s response: “I’m not indifferent to the situation, but that right there is the crazy part of your argument.” Josh: “What?” Amy: “They’re not his votes.” Another apropos quote, I think: “We hold elections in this country, not coronations.” At what point does someone begin to think that they’re entitled to a nomination?! [QUOTE=Liberal] I don’t know what media you’re looking at, but MSNBC is painting her as quite the nutter. [/QUOTE] I am a registered Green, so I’ve been watching the whole Democratic thing with detachment, but really, I have been utterly AMAZED at the number of incredibly naive and downright stupid things that Hillary and her campaign have done. It’s almost been like watching someone with no political experience at all. ---
**Author:** ![Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Crocodiles\_And\_Boulevards](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crocodiles_And_Boulevards)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/103 "2008-06-05T04:32:57Z")
[QUOTE=Kolga] (bolding mine) It reminds me of that scene in _The West Wing_ when a rival Democratic candidate has not yet endorsed Bartlet, and there’s a big pow-wow with the major players. In a side room, Josh tells Amy “He’s taking the President’s votes!” Amy’s response: “I’m not indifferent to the situation, but that right there is the crazy part of your argument.” Josh: “What?” Amy: “They’re not his votes.” Another apropos quote, I think: “We hold elections in this country, not coronations.” At what point does someone begin to think that they’re entitled to a nomination?! [/QUOTE] Look, I don’t want to sound like I’m a staunch Clinton supporter, but these attacks are getting really disingenuous. In particular, the one the above poster is referring to and hamming up. Some people seem to be confusing what one Clinton supporter said with what Hillary herself said/believes. There’s a jump in reasoning at some point in that line of thought. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/104 "2008-06-05T05:01:32Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] He has to placate her fanatical supporters somehow. I’m not sure I believe that she really wants the Veep spot. I think his best bet would be to pay her campaign debts, promise to make UHC central in his administration and choose a woman (Sebelius, or perhaps McCaskill)as his running mate. [/QUOTE] I would love Kathleen Sebelius on the ticket. I would be cool with Claire McCaskill as well. But Sebelius is running for governor again, & we just got Claire in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![beanpod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9adbd/32.png) [@beanpod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beanpod)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/105 "2008-06-05T14:59:54Z")
[QUOTE=Crocodiles and Boulevards] Some people seem to be confusing what one Clinton supporter said with what Hillary herself said/believes. There’s a jump in reasoning at some point in that line of thought. [/QUOTE] I didn’t mean to equate them–I can see how it came across that way. I thought the “with supporters like that” line made that clear. I think her initial speech rankled, and her crazier supporters were definitely not helping her case. The fact that someone who supports her characterizes her that way (as a spoiled child), and \*still \* supports her despite it, is silliness. If I think someone is throwing a tantrum, I don’t support them. But to imply, “Well, yes, it’s a tantrum, but it’s ok, see, 'cause she’s upset…” is a poor way to support your candidate. I, personally, was attacking ferocious, illogical support with that comment. Like I said before, I don’t think her remarks were necessarily meant to imply that she was going to try to contest the nomination, but they were a little whiny and she obviously didn’t think about how they’d come across. That’s bad. As a good part of the president’s job is being persuasive and getting along with people from around the world, I think that’s a big mark against her. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/106 "2008-06-05T15:40:48Z")
[QUOTE=Crocodiles And Boulevards] Look, I don’t want to sound like I’m a staunch Clinton supporter, but these attacks are getting really disingenuous. In particular, the one the above poster is referring to and hamming up. Some people seem to be confusing what one Clinton supporter said with what Hillary herself said/believes. There’s a jump in reasoning at some point in that line of thought. [/QUOTE] While I certainly understand the difference between a supporter and a candidate, there have been several statements by Senator Clinton herself that, to me, seem to fit into the mindset I illustrated. It baffles me, needless to say, that someone who supposedly has such political savvy and experience comes across as so politically naive and entitled. And as I did not bash Senator Clinton or in any way call names or make ugly remarks, simply pointed out a similarity that occurred to me, I personally would not characterize my post as an attack. Your mileage, as always, MV. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/107 "2008-06-05T16:32:36Z")
[QUOTE=foolsguinea] I would love Kathleen Sebelius on the ticket. I would be cool with Claire McCaskill as well. But Sebelius is running for governor again, & we just got Claire in the Senate. [/QUOTE] He can’t choose another woman-- that would piss off too many Hillary supporters. Unless you’re a Hillary hater, which woman in the US is considered more qualified to be VP than Hillary? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/108 "2008-06-05T16:59:38Z")
Michelle Obama? ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/109 "2008-06-05T17:06:23Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] He can’t choose another woman-- that would piss off too many Hillary supporters. Unless you’re a Hillary hater, which woman in the US is considered more qualified to be VP than Hillary? [/QUOTE] Anyone who isn’t named Clinton. She brings way too many negatives with and very little IMO positives. The majority of her voters will vote for Obama anyway. It looks like Obama is only going to try and win 1 or 2 “swing states”, as he’s reshaped the electorial map. His white working class problem will remain in KY, WV and SD, so she won’t help there. The other states in play will depend on whether he can connect with the voters, DEM machine is working and have a running mate from that area. He doesn’t need Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/110 "2008-06-05T17:08:38Z")
I see we have a lot of ABC supporters here. I think I have to concur. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/111 "2008-06-05T17:26:20Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] I think you’re right but if someone knows the last person to make the Supremes without judicial experience I’d be interested. Seems in recent history the appointments have all been judges. [/QUOTE] I think the last one was William Rehnquist, who was appointed in 1971. Clarence Thomas was a lower court judge for about a year before his SCOTUS appointment. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/112 "2008-06-05T20:50:54Z")
[QUOTE=Jolly Roger] I don’t know. Using tactics like that to basically force her way on to the ticket may turn a lot of people off. It certainly is turning me off. She offered him the VP spot remember? What a farce that was. Common sense and politics don’t go hand in hand, but seriously, someone needs to just tell her to give it up. Its over. She lost. Nobody like a sore loser. [/QUOTE] Oh come on! She wants the spot. She knows that Obama probably wouldn’t pick her if he had a choice. She is using her clout to muscle her way on. Is that so bad? Is she just supposed to say ‘OK’ and walk off? That is not her. She is a fighter. She is going to use her clout. This doesn’t make a her a _terrible person_. She is trying to influence her future and, IMO, is a perfectly respectable thing to do. Sure, Obama supporters won’t like it…but she has a heck of alot of delegates. Why shouldn’t she do some arm twisting? ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/113 "2008-06-05T20:54:20Z")
Just wondering… Is it allowed to have your wife run as VP? That would be interesting. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/114 "2008-06-05T21:00:17Z")
Because the Vice President is something you’re offered - not demand. I’m so tired of this ‘she’s a fighter’ bullshit to cover for her lack of class. If Obama takes her, he loses, as your “perfectly respectable thing to do”, wasn’t done behind doors, but out in the open, forcing Obama to either look weak before the nation, because he failed to stand up to being arm-twisted or being called disrepectful to her and her delegates. Her clout has an expiration date and that date ended with that speech she gave on Tuesday. She’s managed to do to herself, what no one else could have; rendered herself irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/115 "2008-06-05T21:19:37Z")
[QUOTE=holmes] Because the Vice President is something you’re offered - not demand. [/QUOTE] Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/116 "2008-06-05T22:06:36Z")
[QUOTE=BlinkingDuck] Oh come on! She wants the spot. She knows that Obama probably wouldn’t pick her if he had a choice. She is using her clout to muscle her way on. Is that so bad? Is she just supposed to say ‘OK’ and walk off? That is not her. She is a fighter. She is going to use her clout. This doesn’t make a her a _terrible person_. She is trying to influence her future and, IMO, is a perfectly respectable thing to do. Sure, Obama supporters won’t like it…but she has a heck of alot of delegates. Why shouldn’t she do some arm twisting? [/QUOTE] Are you serious? You think arm-twisting your way into the number 2 in the country is good thing? Surely, you’re pulling my leg. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/117 "2008-06-05T22:10:38Z")
[QUOTE=BlinkingDuck] Cite? [/QUOTE] Ok, Now I know you’re joking. Not being a history major myself, howabout this…can you cite a vice president that got on the ticket by using these kinds of tactics? Not that **Holmes** should even have to produce a cite…just by trying to somehow force hder way onto the ticket she’s being IMO petty and vindictive. I don’t expect a heapin’ helpin’ of graciousness from Hillary, but she’s demonstrated, at least to me, that she has little anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/118 "2008-06-05T23:17:10Z")
[QUOTE=BlinkingDuck] Cite? [/QUOTE] [Clinton Says V.P. Is Obama’s Choice](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/06/05/clinton-disavows-reports-that-she-wants-to-be-vp/). > [@](#): > > . . . “While Senator Clinton has made clear throughout this process that she will do whatever she can to elect a Democrat to the White House, she is not seeking the vice presidency, and no one speaks for her but her,” Howard Wolfson, one of the campaign’s chief strategists, said in a statement provided to The New York Times. **“The choice here is Senator Obama’s and his alone.”**. . . ---
**Author:** ![Flipshod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f19dbf/32.png) [@Flipshod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flipshod)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2008, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/119 "2008-06-05T23:58:43Z")
I think, once Bill doesn’t have to shill for hill (see that street cred:)?), he’ll get back to telling the truth. If she dips back down into the Senate, he can go back to what he was doing already. And, of course, he’s much better when he truly believes in his cause. There will be enough gifts so that they all get along well, with no single ticket necessary. ---
**Author:** ![JHE1967](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/3bc359/32.png) [@JHE1967](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JHE1967)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2008, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725/120 "2008-06-06T06:09:08Z")
Can someone do me a huge favor and type a brief synopsis of the slimy Karl Rove shit Hillary pulled in the primaries? My girlfriend is a staunch Hillary supported and I need some ammo for arguments. I know about the plagiarism accusations against Obama, the flip flop on MI and FLA and staying in the race when it was obvious she had no chance. What other stunts did she pull? thanks! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-5-fork-hillary-fork-her-and-all-her-flying-monkeys/451725.md?page=7)