# Fork Hillary 3: The Final Forking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726 "2008-03-18T00:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 104
**Author:** ![ratatoskK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ratatoskk/32/2987_2.png) [@ratatoskK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ratatoskK)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2061 "2008-05-29T20:19:25Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] It’s not a protest. It’s an intimidation, very much in the vein of the “Brooks Brothers Riot” in Florida in 2000. What she hopes to gain by trying to intimidate superdelegates (which is what the RBC consists of) I have no idea, but then her entire game plan since Indiana has been pretty much incomprehensible to me. [/QUOTE] Maybe she’s sending in a busload of assassins. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2062 "2008-05-29T20:46:15Z")
[QUOTE=ratatoskK] Maybe she’s sending in a busload of assassins. [/QUOTE] In fairness, though, she’ll likely express conditional regrets to the Kennedys if anything happens. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2063 "2008-05-29T20:58:05Z")
[QUOTE=ratatoskK] Maybe she’s sending in a busload of assassins. [/QUOTE] …or clowns, which are far worse. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2064 "2008-05-29T21:02:44Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] I don’t count gaffes, offensive memes and general stupidities as incomprehensible… [/QUOTE] Snipped. What are you, some kind of Hillary supporter? But seriously, if you don’t count offensive memes and general stupidities as incomprehensible behavior by a presidential nominee candidate, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. ---
**Author:** ![tds1273](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/df705f/32.png) [@tds1273](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tds1273)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2065 "2008-05-29T21:28:16Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] …or clowns, which are far worse. [/QUOTE] Well, I’m sure most of her campaign staff will be there. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2066 "2008-05-29T22:29:59Z")
My fear is that, in the end, Obama will have to resort to finding some loophole in the process, like… I don’t know, delegate count or something. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2067 "2008-05-30T00:25:53Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] So do [others.](http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/) [/QUOTE] Not only does top Obama campaign advisor David Plouffe deny delegate-banking, but Greg Sargent of TPM [says that claims of delegate-banking by either candidate are nonsense](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/05/obama_campaign_manager_its_not.php), and his argument makes sense to me: > [@](#): > > There’s a simple reason that these rumors of blocs of super-dels secretly plotting to move en masse keep proving to be false: This isn’t how the dynamic actually works. The reality is that getting indivdiual super-dels to commit – and getting them to go public – is hard enough on its own, let alone getting them to do so in a big group. > > Once either campaign has got an individual super-del privately locked down, it rushes that super-del out the door and makes it public as quick as possible, in order to make it official. The campaigns don’t privately hoard super-dels, because to do so would risk losing them. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2068 "2008-05-30T09:29:27Z")
Obama finished the day yesterday with 4 superdelegates to Hillary’s 1. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2069 "2008-05-30T14:35:56Z")
I don’t think he has a secret delegate bloc waiting in the wings. What I do believe is that a bunch of them must have said “Listen, I’m going to go with you, but I can’t burn that bridge until June 3rd, only then will I be able to do it and appear non partial.” ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2070 "2008-05-30T20:51:56Z")
Agreed. After the last primary and caucus, look for a substantial bloc of them (esp. as-yet unpledged members of Congress) to move decisively to Obama, but not because anyone’s holding a gun to their heads or has incriminating photos of them. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2071 "2008-05-30T22:23:53Z")
[Pelosi and Reid are making sounds of eminent Obamanation.](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004447110_dems30.html) I don’t think the Democratic Party will let Hillary drag this out forever. ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2072 "2008-05-30T23:08:33Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] [Pelosi and Reid are making sounds of eminent Obamanation.](http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004447110_dems30.html) I don’t think the Democratic Party will let Hillary drag this out forever. [/QUOTE] [Pelosi Lays Down Political Gauntlet At SF Food Bank](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24896913) > [@](#): > > SAN FRANCISCO - House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is calling on the Democratic Party to unite after Tuesday’s final primaries. Pelosi said any attempt to continue the race would be “a scorched earth” approach. > … > She made her position known without directly talking to Clinton. > She said she does not believe she will have to talk to Clinton about her feelings. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2008, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2073 "2008-05-30T23:28:26Z")
[QUOTE=RedSwinglineOne] [Pelosi Lays Down Political Gauntlet At SF Food Bank](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24896913) [/QUOTE] rawr! ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2074 "2008-05-31T00:52:33Z")
She could always pull a Lieberman…wouldn’t that be special? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2075 "2008-05-31T00:53:11Z")
[One observer says “Not so fast”](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/m.s.-bellows/the-trap-clintons-briarpa_b_104198.html), argues that: > [@](#): > > Barack Obama and Howard Dean are about to walk into Harold Ickes’ trap tomorrow, and they aren’t likely to even realize their mistake until Hillary Clinton cries “foul!” next week and announces that “justice” and “voters’ rights” are forcing her to carry her campaign all the way to the Democratic Convention next August. > > By leaning toward implementing a compromise “split the baby” decision tomorrow on how to allocate the Michigan and Florida delegates – a compromise that nearly all observers see as a setback for Clinton – the DNC Rules & Bylaws Committee (“RBC”), the Obama campaign and other well-meaning Democrats will actually be throwing Brer Clinton into the briar patch – giving her exactly the excuse she wants to continue her Quixotic campaign. > > [snip] > > The rules meeting is a trap. Clinton wants the RBC to give Florida and Michigan not the full votes she is fruitlessly advocating for and which would in any case not translate to a win for her but the half-vote compromise she is publicly advocating against. When the committee does award half-votes, she will have cause to extend her campaign through the summer, guaranteeing a divided Convention and possibly killing Democrats’ chances of capturing the Oval Office in November (and of preventing pro-life , pro-Imperial Presidency Republicans from replacing the two remaining Democrats on the nine-member Supreme Court). ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2076 "2008-05-31T01:23:41Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] [One observer says “Not so fast”](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/m.s.-bellows/the-trap-clintons-briarpa_b_104198.html), argues that: [/QUOTE] Machiavellian is not quite the word I’m reaching for. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2077 "2008-05-31T01:33:28Z")
[QUOTE=5-4-Fighting] Machiavellian is not quite the word I’m reaching for. [/QUOTE] I’m reaching for sociopathic. A sociopath does not have to be a person that is constantly in and out of jail, failing in being able to keep a job, nor constantly being broke. Sociopath’s can be wealthy, have a great history in the work place and have never had any run in with the police. What they do have is the ability to manipulate each situation to where nothing is their fault. They are quick to give praise to someone, but use that as another way to draw them further under their control. They truly have no capacity to believe that anything they have ever done is wrong - even when caught in a bold faced lie. They don’t preplan their “sociopathness” and how it will effect what they want - sociopath’s are naturally that way. They are the way they are - to everyone in their lives - from when they were a child, throughout their entire lives. They do not have the ability to change the way they are. They may “mellow” as they age, but their need to have control over others, the need to be implusive, their feelings that, even in lying, they never do anything wrong, and their ability to charm everyone they think they need to charm, does not leave them as they age. > **[How do you know if someone is a sociopathic? - Answers](https://www.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_know_if_someone_is_a_sociopathic)** > > Here is a list of ways to identify a sociopath. This list is from "Profile of a Sociopath." Is is a pretty good list of sociopathic indicators.Glibness/superficial charmManipulative and cunningGrandiose sense of selfPathological lyingLack of remorse,... ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2078 "2008-05-31T01:46:37Z")
I’m trying to take comfort in the fact that to date the Clinton campaign has been so incompetently run; I must therefore believe this strategy will fail just as miserably as the rest. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2079 "2008-05-31T01:52:16Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] I’m trying to take comfort in the fact that to date the Clinton campaign has been so incompetently run; I must therefore believe this strategy will fail just as miserably as the rest. [/QUOTE] That’s exactly what’s going to happen. This nomination was decided a long while ago. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2080 "2008-05-31T04:01:46Z")
I really, really hope that you’re right. Obama and his minions had better be _very_ careful in the RBC. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=103) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=105)