# Fork Hillary 3: The Final Forking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726 "2008-03-18T00:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 107
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2121 "2008-06-01T00:08:04Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Analogy: … if I simply stop fighting, then you can win. [/quote] Nope. You move past the army you’ve already defeated and go on to the next military objective, following a laid-out strategy of winning the _war_, not each battle. A residual enemy force that cannot hinder your operations anymore can be ignored. > [@](#): > > I have to take care of you before I go off to fight the other army across the river. Look into the Allies’ island-hopping strategy of WW2 sometime. Or the Schlieffen plan. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2122 "2008-06-01T00:08:35Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Under the Constitution, slaves were worth 3/5. MI and FL voters, not quite that much. [/QUOTE] Slaves have fuck-all to do with this situation. Get a grip. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2123 "2008-06-01T00:10:10Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Have you not been reading this thread? Or even the title? Or its predecessors? When do you stop insinuating racism? Or do you think you have a basis for it? If so, what is it? If not, don’t you think that crap you’re engaging in badly damages the cause? And you’re doing that with endless, childish bashing? The level of shit _you’ve_ been engaging in, for months now, itself tends to delegitimize the campaign of the candidate you support - and that isn’t anybody else’s fault. 'Tis a pity you can’t see past your own hatred and recognize that. [/QUOTE] Because my hatred is uncaused, I suppose. All of the shit she’s been doing since this began, all of the racist dogwhistles, all of the surrogate’s racist dogwhistles, all of the lies, all of the disingenuous arguments, all of the appealing to people’s lowest natures, all of the “lobbyists are people too”, all of the DLC bullshit, all of the corporatist agenda, all of the “inevitability”, all of the absolutely stupid campaigning, Mark fucking Penn, Howard fucking Wolfson…none of that has anything to do with my growing hatred of her candidacy over the last five months. It’s all some sort of uncaused mental instability, right? Your candidate stinks. I was dubious but neutral toward her before the primary actually began. I would have preferred her not to be the nominee at that point, but that was more because at least half the country hates her (and Bill) with a passion that makes 10,000 blazing suns look like a 40-watt bulb than because of anything inherent in her. But you know who has made me an ardent anti-Clintonist? Hillary Clinton has. Bill Clinton has. Penn has. Wolfson has. Ferraro has. My feelings about her did not appear full-blown like some sort of political Big Bang. It was organic. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2124 "2008-06-01T00:11:29Z")
Do you even have any idea what the Von Schlieffen plan is? That’s not an area you want to challenge me on. Anyway, obviously it’s not a perfect analogy. Obama is not the democratic nominee at this point even though it has been clear that he eventually would be for a while. But he can’t actually go out and campaign as the democratic nominee until he actually is. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2125 "2008-06-01T00:11:37Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Funny how she DIDN’T CARE about the poor, disenfranchised voters of Florida and Michigan until she felt like she NEEDED them to win the nomination, isn’t it? [/quote] Funny how Obama doesn’t care about them even now? Please. > [@](#): > > Outside of Clinton’s immediate cult of personality, I don’t think there are that many Floridians or Michiganders who actually care There have been a number saying so in this very forum. Do pay attention. If not, at least look at the polls there. > [@](#): > > or most of them at least understand why they were sanctioned in the first place and realize that it was a fair sanction. You get a lot more understanding about what people think by \*asking \* them than by \*telling \* them, ya know? > [@](#): > > Can’t you all just kind of join the Hail Clinton Party? Mr. Godwin … paging Mr. Godwin … ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2126 "2008-06-01T00:12:23Z")
Oh, but Elvis is playing a game where listing the offenses committed by Hillary Clinton merely proves that you hate her. It’s very reminiscent of Bush supporters, when he had any. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2127 "2008-06-01T00:13:04Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Mr. Godwin … paging Mr. Godwin … [/QUOTE] Yeah, because I said it was the “Heil” Clinton Party, right? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2128 "2008-06-01T00:13:54Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Mr. Godwin … paging Mr. Godwin … [/QUOTE] Says the guy who mentioned slavery five minutes ago. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2129 "2008-06-01T00:13:56Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Do you even have any idea what the Von Schlieffen plan is? That’s not an area you want to challenge me on… [/QUOTE] Is that like the alien astronaut stuff? Look, just sayin’, you don’t want to get this crowd started on that whole “probe” thing. There are some people here inclined to make some pretty rude jokes. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2130 "2008-06-01T00:14:54Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] Anyway, obviously it’s not a perfect analogy. [/quote] So imperfect it supports exactly the opposite of the point you wish to make. > [@](#): > > Obama is not the democratic nominee at this point even though it has been clear that he eventually would be for a while. But he can’t actually go out and campaign as the democratic nominee until he actually is. He’s been doing essentially that for weeks already. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2131 "2008-06-01T00:16:07Z")
[QUOTE=cricetus] Says the guy who mentioned slavery five minutes ago. [/QUOTE] If you \*have \* no rebuttal to the point under discussion, it’s best not to try one. Not here. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2132 "2008-06-01T00:17:28Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] Yeah, because I said it was the “Heil” Clinton Party, right? [/QUOTE] If that insinuation wasn’t your intention, how about telling us what _was_? ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2133 "2008-06-01T00:21:24Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] If you \*have \* no rebuttal to the point under discussion, it’s best not to try one. Not here. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] If that insinuation wasn’t your intention, how about telling us what _was_? [/QUOTE] Back to back posts! Nice. You criticize him for calling “Godwin!” instead of responding to the argument, and in the very next line call “Godwin!” yourself. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2134 "2008-06-01T00:23:09Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] If that insinuation wasn’t your intention, how about telling us what _was_? [/QUOTE] You know what? I’m done justifying anything to you. I have no idea what’s happened to you in the last six months, but you are NOT the person I’ve been reading for several years now. Given that, at this point, the only things I really want to say to you are not appropriate for GD, I’m done with you. I should have held to my previous “done with you” vow, but I was weak. You can insinuate that I’m claiming Clinton has a secret concentration camp where she puts black people into the gas chamber daily all you want. Have at it. Hope you have fun destroying what little reputation you have left. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2135 "2008-06-01T00:26:29Z")
**Elvis** You ought to consider what your actions are going to have on your future. How long to you plan on harboring this grudge against the entire board? I won’t forget the way you’ve treated people here, and I doubt many will. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2136 "2008-06-01T00:30:56Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] If you \*have \* no rebuttal to the point under discussion, it’s best not to try one. Not here. [/QUOTE] By the same token, don’t provide this cautionary note when you’re failing so epically to make or defend any kind of a point… and especially don’t post it in response to your own pwnage. Are you really too blind to see that your historical analogy is no apter than jayjay’s? Are you too befuddled to see what my point was by reminding you of your own recent transgressions before you lecture others? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2137 "2008-06-01T00:33:46Z")
[QUOTE=cricetus] Are you really too blind to see that your historical analogy is no apter than jayjay’s? [/QUOTE] I made no historical analogy, **elvis** ’s insinuations notwithstanding. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2138 "2008-06-01T00:34:24Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] It is astounding how rude, barbaric, and obnoxious Hillary’s flying monkeys were. They would not stop their heckling and booing even when the grandson of Franklin Fucking Roosevelt told them that they were reflecting poorly on her. And Harold Ickes? He should be excommunicated from the party. His take-your-unity-and-shove-it-up-your-ass speech betrays the fact that he and his candidate have no interest in the party’s welfare, or in the welfare of the nation for that matter. All that matters to them is their own petty pursuits. Are there any more bridges these people can burn? [/QUOTE] It was funny. \*\*gonzomax \*\* and I were watching the entire thing and when Ickes spoke, we were wondering exactly where he was going with it until about a quarter of the way though. I looked at him and said “Ah, a point emerges!” \*\*gonzomax \*\* said “Ah, so that’s how Hillary wants to win this.” Can a Hillary supporter explain to me what the rationale is behind her getting the full weight of those contests? I assume it’s “She won them”. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2139 "2008-06-01T00:40:41Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Under the Constitution, slaves were worth 3/5. MI and FL voters, not quite that much. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] When do you stop insinuating racism? Or do you think you have a basis for it? [/QUOTE] . . . [QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] Will this mollify the voters there, or will they feel themselves condescended to instead? I have a strong suspicion, and I think most of you do too. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] You get a lot more understanding about what people think by \*asking \* them than by \*telling \* them, ya know? [/QUOTE] Gee, ya think? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2008, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2140 "2008-06-01T00:55:32Z")
[QUOTE=Least Original User Name Ever] It was funny. \*\*gonzomax \*\* and I were watching the entire thing and when Ickes spoke, we were wondering exactly where he was going with it until about a quarter of the way though. I looked at him and said “Ah, a point emerges!” \*\*gonzomax \*\* said “Ah, so that’s how Hillary wants to win this.” [/QUOTE] Hillary’s supporters — with the obvious exception of any Dopers — are just… vile. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=106) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=108)