# Fork Hillary 3: The Final Forking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726 "2008-03-18T00:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 112
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2221 "2008-06-02T12:16:33Z")
Hey guys, this is weird. Look at how these three coincidences all seem to point to the same thing: 1. Hillary bets on the only female horse in the Derby, who _dies_ while running against Big Brown. Big Brown goes on to win the Preakness and be the favorite for the Belmont. This coincides with the Guam primary. 2. Hillary makes the pantsuit famous throughout her political career. On the day of the Puerto Rico primary, Yves Saint-Laurent, inventor of the pantsuit, dies. 3. Hillary runs against Barack Obama in a series of dry run (or “primary”) elections where the score is kept (using so-called “delegates” who will vouch for the results at a “convention” later in the summer). Hillary fails to capture the majority of these delegates, leading to speculation by political insiders, political outsiders, horse-racers, fashion magnates, Democrats, Republicans, Independents, and pretty much anyone who can do simple arithmetic that Barack Obama might win the nomination instead. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2222 "2008-06-02T12:18:55Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] The big dogs (Pelosi, Reid, Gore) will bark Wednesday morning and by Wednesday evening Hillary will pack it in. To stay in the fight any longer will hurt her chances for 2012, which is the only thing that now matters to her. The only lingering question is will she try to crash the party and push herself onto the ticket? [/QUOTE] I’m not 100% sure she has not already hurt her chances for 2012. Certainly if [when] Obama is the next president her chances are nil in 2012. There are a lot of party loyalists who are scratching their heads looking at Clinton and her recent high jinks - wondering what does she wnat to accomplish. To me she and her campaign advisors look like they are in the death throes of a campaign. I see this over by end of day Wednesday. Interesting how Donna Brazile said at the RBC meeting: "_My momma always told me to play by the rules, and to respect those rules, and my momma told me that when you decide to change those rules, especially middle of the game and end of the game, that that is referred to as cheating."_ Owned. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2223 "2008-06-02T12:52:04Z")
2 supers have already declared for Obama this morning: Connecticut State Chair Nancy DiNardo Virginia DNC member Jerome Wiley Segovia Needs 44. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2224 "2008-06-02T13:01:30Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] Folks are concerned Clinton could still somehow pull the nomination out of her butt, so I feel many of the remaining supers could be afraid to cross her. If she gives any indication this week that she’s considering taking this to the convention look for a number of the remaining supers to continue to sit on their hands. [/QUOTE] Due respect, but that doesn’t make any sense. If they were afraid of Hillary, they would have already declared for her because she has sorely needed them. I can’t imagine what would piss her off more than someone sitting on their hands while she slogs through the mire of a hopeless campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2225 "2008-06-02T13:03:27Z")
I have to agree, I don’t think the supers are going to sit on their hands. The dems want a dem in the white house plain and simple, and sitting on their hands won’t get that ball rolling as soon as it should be. So I think by end of day Wednesday we’ll see Obama have enough for the win. ---
**Author:** ![Flipshod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f19dbf/32.png) [@Flipshod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flipshod)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2226 "2008-06-02T13:06:07Z")
Ms. Brazile made the comment on CNN that Wednesday is a “new day.” I think that’s a not-so-subtle signal that Wednesday morning the floodgates open. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2227 "2008-06-02T13:07:16Z")
[QUOTE=Flipshod] Ms. Brazile made the comment on CNN that Wednesday is a “new day.” I think that’s a not-so-subtle signal that Wednesday morning the floodgates open. [/QUOTE] I caught that too. When pressed, she said Monday would not be a “new day”, nor would Tuesday, but Wednesday would be. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2228 "2008-06-02T13:16:08Z")
I’m sure many Supers are waiting until polls close on Tuesday. Then they can say, “We’ve let ever voter have their say. We’ve listened to every state. Now I’m giving my support to Obmama.” I predict he will have the delgate majority by Wednesday morning at the latest. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2229 "2008-06-02T13:25:20Z")
Heading to Duke University Medical Center this morning to begin his cancer treatments, Ted Kennedy said, “After completing treatment, I look forward to returning to the United States Senate and to doing everything I can to help elect Barack Obama as our next president.” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2230 "2008-06-02T13:31:18Z")
If the big guns (Gore, Pelosi, Brazile, Carter, etc.) declare for Obama on Wednesday, then there’ll be a stampede of supers following them over the following days, and Obama will have his majority by sometime Thursday. If they hold back, we’ll see a much more gradual trickle of supers which will put Obama over the top in the middle of next week. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2231 "2008-06-02T13:45:46Z")
I expect you’re right, but even if Hillary then throws in the towel and strongly endorses Obama - either before the convention, or in a big speech in Denver - there are still going to be a lot of her supporters who feel cheated. I suppose I’m worrying too much, but they may still sit on their hands this fall or even (less likely) vote for McCain. If she doesn’t get the VP nod (which she doesn’t deserve), watch out. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2232 "2008-06-02T13:56:32Z")
Please stop enabling those people by cowtowing and fearing them. They’re teat sucking junkies who have no concept of consequences for actions. Leave them be. You’ll only frighten others who might be wavering to take the flying monkeys seriously. Get some perspective. The press picked two or three people out of a small crowd that Hillary assembled and gave them two-second sound bites. Don’t fall for that crap. ETA: It’s time for Democrats to grow balls and fight, like their predecessors were willing to do forty years ago. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2233 "2008-06-02T14:01:53Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] I expect you’re right, but even if Hillary then throws in the towel and strongly endorses Obama - either before the convention, or in a big speech in Denver - there are still going to be a lot of her supporters who feel cheated. I suppose I’m worrying too much, but they may still sit on their hands this fall or even (less likely) vote for McCain. If she doesn’t get the VP nod (which she doesn’t deserve), watch out. [/QUOTE] Hopefully she’ll say she doesn’t want VP but personally I wouldn’t have an issue with that. I heard someone from Obama’s campaign saying they’re sure there will be some hurt feelings and disappointment at first but given a little time the party will come together to defeat McCain. Insert crazy lady claiming she feels so cheated she’ll support McCain in retaliation. I think in November people will have to decide what they feel is best for them as a citizen and the country as a whole even if they’re disappointed about their not wining. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2234 "2008-06-02T14:17:47Z")
**Lib** along those lines [here’s](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/28/AR2008052802918.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) that article about how Carter’s difficulties can be a caution to Obama. > [@](#): > > The “fragmentation” they discovered was real, not metaphorical. Carter won the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary with less than 30 percent of the votes, as four more-liberal contenders – Morris Udall, Birch Bayh, Fred Harris and Sargent Shriver – split up the rest. > > But once Carter was in the White House, the liberals who controlled Congress quickly took his measure. They put their obligations to their constituencies and interest groups ahead of any loyalty to him. He never had a “honeymoon,” and by his third year his presidency had unraveled, not because of Republican obduracy but because of his inability to lead his fellow Democrats. … > > Because he sought to appease them by giving the vice presidency to one of their own, Walter Mondale, they scorned him. And because he tried to flatter them by giving key places in his administration to some of them, he faced continual rebellions within his own White House and Cabinet. > > This is the cautionary tale Obama and his brain trust could find in Jordan’s interview. Obama, too, has profited from fragmentation in the Democratic Party that has allowed a long shot, once again, to capture its greatest prize. But if he is elected, he will have to solve the problems of fragmentation that doomed Jimmy Carter. Obama must show the Clinton wing respect but he must not signal weakness in the process. He must have the spine that Carter never demonstrated or else he will be hamstrung by them forever more. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2235 "2008-06-02T14:29:51Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] **Lib** along those lines [here’s](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/28/AR2008052802918.html?hpid=opinionsbox1) that article about how Carter’s difficulties can be a caution to Obama.Obama must show the Clinton wing respect but he must not signal weakness in the process. He must have the spine that Carter never demonstrated or else he will be hamstrung by them forever more. [/QUOTE] Wow. Now that’s dam interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2236 "2008-06-02T14:35:38Z")
I don’t think the parallels with Carter hold up. In everything from management to speaking, Obama is lightyears ahead of Carter. Many of Obama’s biggest supporters are very important Democrats in both houses of Congress. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2237 "2008-06-02T14:50:49Z")
[QUOTE=DSeid] Obama must show the Clinton wing respect … [/QUOTE] He should give them all the respect they deserve. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2238 "2008-06-02T14:52:23Z")
I think Obama would handle himself better if he was attacked by a rabbit. ---
**Author:** ![Aguecheek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a9adbd/32.png) [@Aguecheek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aguecheek)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2239 "2008-06-02T14:53:03Z")
I’m assuming undeclared MT Senator Max Baucus is not [uncommitted](http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/foreign/tobyharnden/june2008/baucussign.htm). Gave me a chuckle, that did. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2240 "2008-06-02T15:08:46Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Due respect, but that doesn’t make any sense. If they were afraid of Hillary, they would have already declared for her because she has sorely needed them. I can’t imagine what would piss her off more than someone sitting on their hands while she slogs through the mire of a hopeless campaign. [/QUOTE] Hey, I hope I’m wrong, but I can see supers, who want to come out for Obama, sitting pat until there’s absolutely no chance for Clinton to pull this out, juuuuuuust in case…not wanting to have been for the loser and all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=111) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=113)