# Fork Hillary 3: The Final Forking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726 "2008-03-18T00:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 118
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2341 "2008-06-03T14:25:55Z")
[QUOTE=ultrafilter] McCain is from the Silent generation, not the Greatest (AKA G.I.). The birth years for the G.I. generation were 1901-1924; for the Silent, 1925-1942; the Boomer, 1943-1960; and X, 1961-1981. All this is taken from Strauss & Howe. [/QUOTE] Thanks for providing that information. I don’t mind at all calling people who buckled down for a world war, sucked it up during a terrible depression, and stormed beaches defended by Hitler the greatest. They earned it. ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2342 "2008-06-03T14:28:44Z")
And some how along the way, they invented television and air conditioning. I givem their props. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2343 "2008-06-03T14:31:02Z")
[QUOTE=ultrafilter] McCain is from the Silent generation, not the Greatest (AKA G.I.). The birth years for the G.I. generation were 1901-1924; for the Silent, 1925-1942; the Boomer, 1943-1960; and X, 1961-1981. All this is taken from Strauss & Howe. [/QUOTE] Interesting. I was born in '68 and always assumed that I was _not_ Gen X. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2344 "2008-06-03T14:32:23Z")
[QUOTE=ultrafilter] McCain is from the Silent generation, not the Greatest (AKA G.I.). The birth years for the G.I. generation were 1901-1924; for the Silent, 1925-1942; the Boomer, 1943-1960; and X, 1961-1981. All this is taken from Strauss & Howe. [/QUOTE] I don’t know Strauss & Howe from a hole in the ground, but the Baby Boom generation has historically been defined as those babies conceived and born for a varying period after WWII, starting with those conceived by the returning GIs. So the first year of the Baby Boom generation is 1946, and has been defined as such as far back as this mid-Boomer can remember. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2345 "2008-06-03T14:42:25Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] I don’t know Strauss & Howe from a hole in the ground, but the Baby Boom generation has historically been defined as those babies conceived and born for a varying period after WWII, starting with those conceived by the returning GIs. So the first year of the Baby Boom generation is 1946, and has been defined as such as far back as this mid-Boomer can remember. [/QUOTE] The definition depends on whether you’re going by the boom generation as a demographic or a social phenomenon. Strauss & Howe is the seminal work on generational theory, and really ought to be required reading for anyone interested in politics or history. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2346 "2008-06-03T14:46:42Z")
[QUOTE=Zakalwe] She has literally lost her life-long dream during this primary.\* I honestly can’t imagine what that truly feels like. I can get close, but the realization that this thing you’ve been dreaming about since you were a little girl (guy) is simply not going to happen must be devastating. [/QUOTE] Jim Lovell’s sad circuit of the moon comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2347 "2008-06-03T14:47:18Z")
So in more ways than one, this election cycle will be historic. Will we charactorize it as writing the first chapter in a new book, or will we charactorize it as flipping back to the index to see if we are in the right place? ---
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2348 "2008-06-03T14:48:49Z")
Huh? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2349 "2008-06-03T14:52:45Z")
[QUOTE=ultrafilter] McCain is from the Silent generation, not the Greatest (AKA G.I.). [/QUOTE] Gah! You and **cricetus** are correct…for some reason, I always want to see McCain as having been in WWII rather than Vietnam. He just _seems_ older than that… ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2350 "2008-06-03T14:55:04Z")
[QUOTE=Cervaise] Jim Lovell’s sad circuit of the moon comes to mind. [/QUOTE] Yeah, although in Lovell’s case, it was an accident. He’d done everything right, but just didn’t get there. In Hillary’s case, she had it in the bag and then lost it mostly due to her own mistakes. That’s gotta sting. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2351 "2008-06-03T15:08:34Z")
Yeah, that’s the interesting thing about it. Bush is considered establishment, and McCain is _even older_. Obama is younger. Personally I think the boomers are on their way out because their generation represents a lot of what is wrong with America. I’m not saying it’s all their fault, but can you seriously imagine someone act so petty and childish as Bill Clinton and George W Bush? Maybe it’s just those two, but all three of them supposedly have effed up childhoods. I’d rather not have the most powerful position in the world be used for yet another person’s self-therapy. So what are we going to see tonight? Drudge says that camp Hillary expects to see a 25 point win in SD tonight. It was unsourced, and didnt link to anything so it either means that he put it up himself to help Obama (no way she’ll reach those expectations) or Obama somehow got it up there. I don’t know, but it’d normally be the last thing you’d want to do. Normally it’s a great thing to drastically exceed expectations. But then again, maybe _she_ floated the number to stir up some doubt amongst the super delegates going to Obama today. Anyway, I think the number is highly suspect. And now on to the topic I had originally planned: Tonight could be a huge problem for Hillary. If she goes up there and doesn’t give some kind of signal that this is coming to an end, moreover, if she gives signals that she will keep fighting, it will be juxtaposed with Obama reaching the magic number. Now that’s going to be rough. I can’t imagine any way that looks good for her. Lots of crazy speculation going on today. Lots of crazy signalling. Ickies is talking about going to Denver. McAullife says that Hillary will accept the number if Barack reaches it (although who know when she’ll be satisfied that it’s legitimate). Drudge is saying she’ll win SD by 25 points Okay forget all of that…The news is she definitely will conceede: [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/clinton](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/clinton) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2352 "2008-06-03T15:14:04Z")
Yeah, that’s running everywhere now. So there you have it, folks: almost three months and 2,300-plus posts since this thread was started, and almost four months after the Potomac primary - if you asked me where Obama broke away, I’d say it was on Feb. 12, particularly with his 30-point blowout win in Virginia - the tines of the great fork finally come down tonight. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2353 "2008-06-03T15:19:03Z")
Not so fast. Terry McAuliffe is on CNN right now saying Hillary will “absolutely not” concede tonight and that “the race goes on.” ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2354 "2008-06-03T15:19:31Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Yeah, that’s running everywhere now. So there you have it, folks: almost three months and 2,300-plus posts since this thread was started, and almost four months after the Potomac primary - if you asked me where Obama broke away, I’d say it was on Feb. 12, particularly with his 30-point blowout win in Virginia - the tines of the great fork finally come down tonight. I’d give North Carolina the credit. Pundits had her closing the gap to almost even, but she was blown out while simultaneously pulling a squeaker in Indiana. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2355 "2008-06-03T15:20:34Z")
[QUOTE=kunilou] Not so fast. Terry McAuliffe is on CNN right now saying Hillary will “absolutely not” concede tonight and that “the race goes on.” [/QUOTE] Like I reported above, there is infighting among her staff and they’re not prepared to confirm anything at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2356 "2008-06-03T15:22:49Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] I’d give North Carolina the credit. Pundits had her closing the gap to almost even, but she was blown out while simultaneously pulling a squeaker in Indiana. [/QUOTE] That was the last door slamming shut, for sure. To me, though, Virginia was the biggest of that string of wins in February and the centerpiece. He did well in Virginia even among the groups that were supposed to heavily favor her. After that there was very little chance that she was going to catch up to him. Oh, and if Terry McAuliffe’s lips are moving… ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2357 "2008-06-03T15:23:45Z")
You know, they may think that all of this buzz will make people think that her campaign is still optimistic and dynamic and ready to keep going, but all it makes me think is that she’s lost all control of the damn thing and can’t even control the message. All I see going on in the Clinton camp is chaos and that is NOT the hallmark of a healthy campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2358 "2008-06-03T15:26:03Z")
[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe] Lots of crazy speculation going on today. Lots of crazy signalling. Ickies is talking about going to Denver. McAullife says that Hillary will accept the number if Barack reaches it (although who know when she’ll be satisfied that it’s legitimate). Drudge is saying she’ll win SD by 25 points Okay forget all of that…The news is she definitely will conceede: [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/clinton](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/clinton) [/QUOTE] One thing that has been interesting to me in following this thread is how you young people have reacted to all this. It’s been like, “Why hasn’t anything happened in the last few minutes!?” I think you may not be used to processes that trog along this slowly. Also keep in mind that news has to mature. Recall September 11, when we were being deluged with information that was contradicted moments later. It really ain’t news until it’s confirmed. Until then, it’s just speculation. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2359 "2008-06-03T15:27:11Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] [North Carolina] was the last door slamming shut, for sure. To me, though, Virginia was the biggest of that string of wins in February and the centerpiece. He did well in Virginia even among the groups that were supposed to heavily favor her. After that there was very little chance that she was going to catch up to him. [/QUOTE] Yes, that’s a good point. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/2360 "2008-06-03T15:27:31Z")
[QUOTE=jayjay] You know, they may think that all of this buzz will make people think that her campaign is still optimistic and dynamic and ready to keep going, but all it makes me think is that she’s lost all control of the damn thing and can’t even control the message. All I see going on in the Clinton camp is chaos and that is NOT the hallmark of a healthy campaign. [/QUOTE] Which is one of the reasons I believe she would be a freaking uncontrollable disaster as VP. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=117) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=119)