# Fork Hillary 3: The Final Forking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726 "2008-03-18T00:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/341 "2008-03-26T19:28:21Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] And that statement, if actually true, may mean that McCain wins the White house later this year. ☹ I think you could rightly say that it’s the Dems who maybe forked here… [/QUOTE] I’m not worried about it yet. Clinton and Obama have been fighting it out, and nobody’s shining much of a spotlight on McCain’s flaws just yet. But the stuff about Hillary, Scaife, and the American Spectator have tipped the balance for me. It’s time for Hillary to be told (by a delegation including Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Ted Kennedy) to graciously drop out of the race, or be pushed. Once that’s done, Obama and the Dems can get down to the serious work of nailing McCain to his record. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/342 "2008-03-26T19:33:45Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] I’m not worried about it yet. Clinton and Obama have been fighting it out, and nobody’s shining much of a spotlight on McCain’s flaws just yet. But the stuff about Hillary, Scaife, and the American Spectator have tipped the balance for me. It’s time for Hillary to be told (by a delegation including Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Ted Kennedy) to graciously drop out of the race, or be pushed. Once that’s done, Obama and the Dems can get down to the serious work of nailing McCain to his record. [/QUOTE] Stand Ovation from Connecticut! Exactly what needs to happen! I’ve been pushng my superdelegates here in ct to do just that! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/343 "2008-03-26T19:39:25Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] Wow, the Huckster is defending Obama? Where’d you find that? [/QUOTE] [link](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/19/huckabee-defends-rev-jer_n_92346.html) It seemed to me that he was defending Wright more than Obama. He was careful to separate the two issues. For those that haven’t, take the time to listen to Wright’s comments within a larger context of the sermons they were taken from. It’s quite a different view. [America’s Chickens](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ) [God Dam America](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMbeVQj6Lw) IMO it shows how very dishonest the people are that chose to show those clips over and over without discussing content at all. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/344 "2008-03-26T19:50:02Z")
Lemme see if I got this straight: Hillary Clinton is saying nice things about McCain. Bill Clinton is on the radio with Rush Limbaugh. Mike Huckabee is defending Obama. God, I need a drink. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/345 "2008-03-26T19:55:23Z")
[QUOTE=BJMoose] Lemme see if I got this straight: Hillary Clinton is saying nice things about McCain. Bill Clinton is on the radio with Rush Limbaugh. Mike Huckabee is defending Obama. God, I need a drink. [/QUOTE] A drink won’t help - but campaigning for Obama will 😃 Well A drink may relax you…but you can still campaign for Barack whilst relaxed! ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/346 "2008-03-26T20:21:29Z")
[QUOTE=BJMoose] Lemme see if I got this straight: Hillary Clinton is saying nice things about McCain. Bill Clinton is on the radio with Rush Limbaugh. Mike Huckabee is defending Obama. God, I need a drink. [/QUOTE] Me, I’m seeking treatment for a really bad case of whiplash. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/347 "2008-03-26T21:17:57Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] And then [Team Hillary distributes an American Spectator article](http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/obama_and_the_jews.php) accusing Obama of anti-Semitism for wanting Israel to return to its pre-1967 borders, which was the position of every U.S. Administration from LBJ to Bill Clinton. [/QUOTE] If this is true (and apparently Marc Ambinder confirmed that it came to him in an “on-the-record email from Phil Singer, the Clinton campaign spokesman.” [cite](http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/this_is_disgusting_clintons_mc.php)), this is really, really bad. My boss is trying to find out more, and see if he can suss out this original email, and if he can, this could be the deal-breaker that causes him to back away from his support for Hillary. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/348 "2008-03-26T21:37:10Z")
_:::fawning mode:::_ Love to read most of the Obama backers posts. Not just due to their support of the man I am hoping will become your next POTUS, but rather because they only reinforce my gut-feeling that Americans as a whole are good people who were misled, but because they also show you’re smart enough to recover and pick the wheat from the chaff. Big Ups to people like **RTFly** , **Phlosphr** , **ETF** , **cosmodan** and even my ex-nemesis On Everthing, **x-time**. Of course, this post wouldn’t be a proper pile of adulation if I failed to mention my favorite Obama uber-informed firebrand, **Shayna**. And obviously I mean “firebrand” in a good way. So here’s a toast to all of you! All the way to the WH. _:::done fawning…for now::::_ ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/349 "2008-03-26T21:38:19Z")
[QUOTE=cosmosdan] [link](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/19/huckabee-defends-rev-jer_n_92346.html) It seemed to me that he was defending Wright more than Obama. He was careful to separate the two issues. For those that haven’t, take the time to listen to Wright’s comments within a larger context of the sermons they were taken from. It’s quite a different view. [America’s Chickens](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ) [God Dam America](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMbeVQj6Lw) IMO it shows how very dishonest the people are that chose to show those clips over and over without discussing content at all. [/QUOTE] I think [this](http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/martin-marty-on.html) (and the story it links to) is essential reading to get a much more clear-eyed view of who Wright is and what he has stood for (good and bad) over the years. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/350 "2008-03-26T22:01:07Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Of course, this post wouldn’t be a proper pile of adulation if I failed to mention my favorite Obama uber-informed firebrand, **Shayna**. And obviously I mean “firebrand” in a good way. So here’s a toast to all of you! All the way to the WH. _:::done fawning…for now::::_ [/QUOTE] Why thank you very much, **RedFury**. I appreciate your kind words. And thanks, also to my previously-unknown friend, **Satyagrahi** for the kind words and his/her (?) sage advice from up above. By the way, for anyone interested, [Here’s a picture of my boss with General McPeak](http://www.flickr.com/photos/23298617@N05/2364229719/) (amongst others). ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/351 "2008-03-26T22:01:49Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] **TWEEEET!** [/QUOTE] …I tawt I taw a puddy tat. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/352 "2008-03-26T22:55:24Z")
[Congressman Lipinski backs Obama for president](http://www.suntimes.com/news/elections/861889,032608lipinski.article) > [@](#): > > March 26, 2008 > > FROM THE ASSOCIATED PRESS > > Congressman Dan Lipinski is backing U.S. Senator Barack Obama’s presidential bid. > > Lipinski had been one of the two remaining holdouts among Democratic superdelegates in Illinois’ congressional delegation. He says he’s endorsed Obama because of the candidate’s emphasis on overcoming partisanship and uniting the country. > > . . . ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/353 "2008-03-26T23:10:56Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] [Congressman Lipinski backs Obama for president](http://www.suntimes.com/news/elections/861889,032608lipinski.article) [/QUOTE] **Shayna** how many nails do you think Hillary’s coffin has? Or should I say requires? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/354 "2008-03-26T23:14:55Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] **Shayna** how many nails do you think Hillary’s coffin has? Or should I say requires? 😃 [/QUOTE] I’m fully expecting a “Fork Hillary 4: electric forkalu” and “Fork Hillary 5: fork harder” before this is over. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/355 "2008-03-26T23:30:38Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] **Shayna** how many nails do you think Hillary’s coffin has? Or should I say requires? 😃 [/QUOTE] I dunno, want one more? > [@](#): > > U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell, one of Washington’s 17 Democratic superdelegates, isn’t ready to shift her allegiance from Sen. Hillary Clinton to Sen. Barack Obama — yet. > > But in an interview with The Columbian’s editorial board Monday, she said the candidate with the most pledged delegates at the end of the primary season in late June will have the strongest claim to the party’s presidential nomination. > > “I definitely don’t want the superdelegates to be the deciding factor,” she said. > > “If we have a candidate who has the most delegates and the most states,” the Democratic party should come together around that candidate, Cantwell said. The pledged delegate count will be the most important factor, she said, because that is the basis of the nominating process. > > . . . > > [Clark County News - The Columbian](http://www.columbian.com/news/localNews/2008/03/03242008_Cantwell-supporting-Clinton--for-now.cfm/) 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/356 "2008-03-26T23:37:33Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] **Shayna** how many nails do you think Hillary’s coffin has? Or should I say requires? 😃 [/QUOTE] Forget the nails. This one needs a stake through the heart. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/357 "2008-03-26T23:37:58Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] [Congressman Lipinski backs Obama for president](http://www.suntimes.com/news/elections/861889,032608lipinski.article) [/QUOTE] As Liebercrats go, Lipinski’s about as Lieber as they come. Bet that primary challenge from Mark Pera didn’t hurt, even if it fell somewhat short. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/358 "2008-03-26T23:38:29Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] **Shayna** how many nails do you think Hillary’s coffin has? Or should I say requires? 😃 [/QUOTE] As many as possible. And considering this is a Clinton we’re talking about, probably need to put one through the heart as well. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/359 "2008-03-26T23:44:36Z")
[QUOTE=Bosstone] I doubt there are ‘thousands’ of party leaders in Florida. Do you? [/QUOTE] _That’s_ your cite? :dubious: Is the FL Democratic Party like the Mormon priesthood, where every voter is also a party leader? Or maybe that’s a whoosh. Do you have anything \*substantive \* that would suggest the voters of MI and FL \*want \* to be disenfranchised? One might think that, in FL anyway, they’d have had enough of that already, without getting it from the other party too. To those of you who have said it, Obama’s “I’ll abide by the DNC ruling” is precisely the pseudo-helpless handwringing I mentioned earlier. The Clinton campaign was in there discussing alternatives, trying to find ways to make a do-over work, but of course it wasn’t going to without the concurrence of the Obama campaign either, now was it? No, our “non-traditional politician”, being “above that kind of thing”, while demonstrating “uniting leadership”, was in fact supporting the disenfranchisement of people he thought might vote for his opponent, wasn’t he? That antidemocracy shit was bad enough from Rove’s gang. It isn’t any better from Saint Barack, either. At least we expected no better from _them_. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2008, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/360 "2008-03-26T23:54:10Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] It’s time for Hillary to be told (by a delegation including Howard Dean, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, and Ted Kennedy) to graciously drop out of the race, or be pushed. [/QUOTE] Funny you should mention that. > [@](#): > > CLINTON TACTICS TURN OFF SOME SUPERDELEGATES > > At a time when Sen. Hillary Clinton is increasingly relying on superdelegates to vault her to the Democratic Party’s nomination, a handful of undecided and pledged superdelegates are coming forward to say her campaign’s tactics in recent weeks are doing more harm than good. > > The Democratic Party insiders say they believe Clinton’s direct attacks against Sen. Barack Obama in recent days are hurting the party and its chances in November, and also say it is showing a calculated, desperate-to-win side of Clinton that they dislike. > > . . . > > The Clinton campaign has been actively wooing these delegates, believing a plurality represents the strongest, and increasingly the only, way for her to win the nomination. But one undeclared delegate, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the recent tactics are turning her and other superdelegates off. > > . . . > > Several said they were angered by comments from James Carville, who called Bill Richardson “Judas” for backing Obama after serving in the Clinton White House. One delegate said Richardson’s rationale for supporting Obama, and his implicit frustration at the Clintons’ heavy-handed approach to garnering his support, was echoed among superdelegates. > > Others said they were frustrated by recent reports that Clinton embellished her description of landing in Bosnia as First Lady, and said it suggested she would do anything to win. “I don’t remember what movie I saw two weeks ago; I don’t necessarily remember what I had for dinner last night,” one superdelegate said. “But I would remember having to duck and run from sniper fire.” > > The final straw, though, were Clinton’s comments Tuesday, when she said the Rev. Jeremiah Wright “would not have been my pastor.” Several superdelegates saw it as a direct, personal attack on Obama. > > “I think it’s very dangerous for any candidate to constantly thrum on what they perceive as sensational criticisms of their opponent,” said Debra Kozikowski, an uncommitted superdelegate from Massachusetts. “I would be more likely to respond positively to discussions of issues that effect Americans versus what might be perceived as character flaws.” > > . . . > > And they say they are not buying some of the Clinton campaign’s explanations as to why they should support her, whether it is her victories in large states, primary states or those likely to go Democratic in the November election. > \*\* > “Periodically, over the last couple of weeks, you will see a news story or get something from the campaign, and you’ll go, 'How stupid do you think I am?”\*\* one uncommitted superdelegate said. **“All of us watch television all the time, read the newspapers. We all play with the little charts online too. We know it is virtually impossible.”** > > One delegate said the Clinton campaign is “using Jeremiah Wright to scare white people.” > > “A full and fair debate about issues and differences and even fights is good,” the delegate said. “Mud slinging, personal attacks and lying is never good for any political fight or party. And I see a lot of that coming from one side more than the other.” > > The delegates said there is little the party or its leaders can do to prevent the current back and forth. **But some said they were increasingly in touch with Clinton campaign officials to say their support is in jeopardy**. > > “Uncommitted delegates can come out and say, ‘If you don’t stop this now, we won’t vote for you,’” one uncommitted superdelegate said. > > [http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/26/820834.aspx](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/03/26/820834.aspx) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=19)