# Fork Hillary 3: The Final Forking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726 "2008-03-18T00:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2008, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/421 "2008-03-28T22:23:25Z")
Slate is now running the [Hillary Deathwatch](http://www.slate.com/id/2187558/). They currently have her chances at 12% (but acknowledge that that’s being exceedingly generous). ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/422 "2008-03-29T01:28:47Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] Just like I still don’t understand why a few of my Republican friends voted for Bush in '04. These are smart people and by then it was plain to see what kind of president he was. Yet they voted for him. You remind me of them. [/QUOTE] I do? I remember the last time we had a presidential candidate whose campaign was based on his being a uniter, a leader who had shown his ability to work across the aisle with members of the other party (albeit in a state legislature), who was devoted to compassion in his political ideology, a refreshing break from the hard partisanship of the previous administration. A helluva lot of people believed that and supported him because of that, too. They even supported his own efforts at disenfranchising voters for the other candidate, who was derided and comically hated by many of those supporters essentially for \*not \* being Him. Many of \*you \* remind me of _them_ - but with some factual basis to do so. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/423 "2008-03-29T01:34:53Z")
[A bit of material](http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/03/28/for_clinton_and_supporters_not_1.html) for the ardent Clinton-haters, still echoing the impeachment-era Republican shit about how he should simply resign for the good of the nation, never mind that they were only referring to their own hate: > [@](#): > > Twenty-two percent (22%) of Democratic voters nationwide say that Hillary Clinton should drop out of the race for the Democratic Presidential nomination. However, the latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found that an identical number—22%–say that Barack Obama should drop out. > > A solid majority of Democrats, 62%, aren’t ready for either candidate to leave the race. Nationally, Clinton and Obama are running essentially even among Likely Democratic Primary Voters in the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll. That help clear up the true situation \*outside \* the cult compound walls for ya? **Merk** , you don’t get to pretend that an answer you don’t like hasn’t even been given, m’kay? Now quit pouting. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/424 "2008-03-29T01:35:21Z")
I don’t think I can remember an election in which someone wasn’t harping that he represented “change.” It ranks up there with “law and order” and kissing babies. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/425 "2008-03-29T01:44:15Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] I don’t know if anyone’s noticed, and I don’t know if **Elvis** read my long post to him waay up thread. But **Elvis** is talking the way I’d expect him to talk. Like he’s got conviction. Who am I to say he’s dead wrong? [/quote] I would have hoped you’d give me credit for having seen a few campaigns, and administrations, in my day instead of that little bit of snark. But it’s at the high end of the conduct scale compared to your colleagues here, so let’s move on. ’ > [@](#): > > I don’t know if in his heart of hearts he believes what he says Why would you think I would post something I didn’t believe? > [@](#): > > or if he doesn’t like black people Oops. You just slid back down to the bottom of the scale, in fact below it. You are the first here to impute racism, at least overtly, to the act of not supporting Obama as enthusiastically as you : May _I_ wonder out loud if you just don’t like _women_? There is NO room here for that shit. None at all. You are not helping your cause one little bit, you are in fact now badly damaging it. I’d demand an apology except that, from someone who’d say that in the first place, it wouldn’t mean anything worthwhile anyway. > [@](#): > > or he simply want’s Hillary to win because he thinks she’d be the best POTUS above Barack Obama and John McCain. We’ve discussed that directly before. You know that’s the case. You \*know \* it. :rolleyes: Now why should anyone take anything else you have to say, on this subject or any other, seriously after \*that \* inexcusable display? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/426 "2008-03-29T01:45:02Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] That help clear up the true situation \*outside \* the cult compound walls for ya? [/QUOTE] **WE AREN’T A CULT. QUIT INSULTING US OUTSIDE OF THE 'PIT.** ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/427 "2008-03-29T01:51:22Z")
> [@Elvisl1ves](#): > > **Merk** , you don’t get to pretend that an answer you don’t like hasn’t even been given, m’kay? Now quit pouting. WHERE IS IT? Seriously, tell me how you see Clinton winning this thing! I’ve asked you about 5 times and you’ve still yet to answer. So you have the chance to put it out. I’ve said how I see Obama winning. If Clinton has no chance of winning, she has no business being in the campaign still. You apparently think she can win. Would you PLEASE tell me how? It’s all I ask for at this stage. I just want a rational list of events that you expect to happen that will end up having her being the nominee. Make your case right here and now. Then we can discuss the relative pros and cons of it. I just want to understand your logic. All you’ve done is insult me personally. ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/428 "2008-03-29T02:21:00Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] I would have hoped you’d give me credit for having seen a few campaigns, and administrations, in my day instead of that little bit of snark. But it’s at the high end of the conduct scale compared to your colleagues here, so let’s move on. 'Why would you think I would post something I didn’t believe? Oops. You just slid back down to the bottom of the scale, in fact below it. You are the first here to impute racism, at least overtly, to the act of not supporting Obama as enthusiastically as you : May _I_ wonder out loud if you just don’t like _women_? There is NO room here for that shit. None at all. You are not helping your cause one little bit, you are in fact now badly damaging it. I’d demand an apology except that, from someone who’d say that in the first place, it wouldn’t mean anything worthwhile anyway. We’ve discussed that directly before. You know that’s the case. You \*know \* it. :rolleyes: Now why should anyone take anything else you have to say, on this subject or any other, seriously after \*that \* inexcusable display? [/QUOTE] I posted a reply to his racist comment to you yesterday and got no response from him or anyone else. It must be OK with him and everyone else to throw the race card at posters who aren’t Obama supporters. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/429 "2008-03-29T02:26:30Z")
**Elvis** , quite the crap and lay out a reasonable scenario where Hill comes back from the dead. Other than buying the super-delegates (money or political threats) you must admit you ain’t got shit…other than a beat-up keyboard that is. Don’t want to give specifics? Fine. You’re tombstoned. Here’s last your chance to improve your ridiculous signal to noise ratio. IOW, face the stark reality of your candidates’ almost non-existent odds. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/430 "2008-03-29T02:39:30Z")
[QUOTE=kevja] I posted a reply to his racist comment to you yesterday and got no response from him or anyone else. It must be OK with him and everyone else to throw the race card at posters who aren’t Obama supporters. [/QUOTE] Got me there. My silence surely indicates that I fully support any and all comments that I haven’t commented on. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/431 "2008-03-29T02:54:05Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] I don’t know if in his heart of hearts he believes what he says, or if he doesn’t like black people, or he simply want’s Hillary to win because he thinks she’d be the best POTUS above Barack Obama and John McCain. I have no idea why he says what he does. [/QUOTE] I said that I have no idea your thinking or why. I was illustrating my not understanding \*your \* position, I was not insulting you. So much for the Auerbach quote. Insults go no where, as you can see. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/432 "2008-03-29T03:09:08Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] **Merk** , you don’t get to pretend that an answer you don’t like hasn’t even been given, m’kay? Now quit pouting. [/QUOTE] Uhh, I’m not **Merkwurdigliebe** , but I seem to have missed the answer among the 400+ posts to this thread. Could I trouble you to provide a link to the post, please? ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/433 "2008-03-29T03:33:32Z")
[QUOTE=Harborwolf] Got me there. My silence surely indicates that I fully support any and all comments that I haven’t commented on. [/QUOTE] Your point is taken. But I do find it odd and insulting that \*\*Plospher \*\* throws the race card when questioning why a poster doesn’t support Obama. It seems to go against everything that Obama’s positive campaign stands for. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/434 "2008-03-29T03:40:00Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] Uhh, I’m not **Merkwurdigliebe** , but I seem to have missed the answer among the 400+ posts to this thread. Could I trouble you to provide a link to the post, please? [/QUOTE] Oh wow. Considering the ad hominem attacks against me by him I figured he was referring to me. Good luck getting an answer though. It seems that Hillary & co. these days simply just lash out at anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/435 "2008-03-29T03:52:30Z")
Not sure if this has been posted yet, but it looks like Obama can add six more supers: > **[The Pelosi Club - Superdelegates who will support the pledged delegate winner](http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/03/superdelegates-pledging-to-back.html)** > > (See bottom of post for May 20 and May 22 updates) This is a list of superdelegates who have specifically committed to vote for the leader i... ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/436 "2008-03-29T06:34:32Z")
Looks like it’s going to be awhile. [Clinton rules out leaving race early.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080329/ap_on_el_pr/clinton) ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/437 "2008-03-29T06:50:45Z")
Well, there’s a silver lining to the hot race. Although it will tire out both nominees so neither one is fresh going into the general election, all the dirt-digging is being done now. Clinton’s been providing fresh material for her attackers constantly, so I don’t have much hope there if she’s the candidate. Obama’s dirt is being dug up for the primaries, however, and as long as he’s careful about not providing fresh material, McCain won’t be able to throw that much at him that the public hasn’t already heard about by now. (Yeah, it was said about Clinton, too, but she’s been getting hit mostly with all that new material she’s providing than anything in her past.) Meanwhile, the easy ride McCain’s getting so far means he hasn’t been scrutinized as closely, so all the dirt on him will be more or less available for the general. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/438 "2008-03-29T11:26:28Z")
[QUOTE=kevja] Your point is taken. [/quote] Don’t take it. I’ve only got the one and I’d hate to be pointless. > [@](#): > > It seems to go against everything that Obama’s positive campaign stands for. Just because somebody supports a candidate doesn’t mean they follow their entire belief structure. This is politics, not religion. Just because they compare the Obama campaign to a cult doesn’t mean that it actually is. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/439 "2008-03-29T13:28:20Z")
[QUOTE=kevja] Your point is taken. But I do find it odd and insulting that \*\*Plospher \*\* throws the race card when questioning why a poster doesn’t support Obama. It seems to go against everything that Obama’s positive campaign stands for. [/QUOTE] \*\*Mea Culpa \*\*. And I know full well **Elvis** is not a racist. I should have worded that much differently, I was caught up in a moment. I apologize to **Elvis**. I know he’s not a racist. To put it in the parlance of our times: _ **I reject and denounce my misspeaking to Elvis being a racist. He’s not.** _ ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2008, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/440 "2008-03-29T14:01:11Z")
I think Hillary sees the writing on the wall. She’s considering a run for [New York Governor.](http://www.newsweek.com/id/129399) > [@](#): > > The travails of New York Gov. David Paterson have opened up a new potential career path for Clinton, according to well-informed Democratic Party insiders who refused to allow their names to be used when discussing contingencies. They want her to consider the option if she concludes after the April 22 Pennsylvania primary that she cannot overtake Barack Obama for the party’s presidential nomination. Hillary Clinton, while fully committed to continuing her presidential campaign, was said to be open to discussing the idea, while Bill Clinton rejected it out of hand. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=23)