# Fork Hillary 3: The Final Forking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726 "2008-03-18T00:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 33
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/641 "2008-04-04T04:13:54Z")
[QUOTE=OttoDaFe] **Shayna** et al., looks like someone beat me to it — [this YouTube video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r25wUeMAwdE) matches the one I pilfered out of the cache. Hopefully he’s the 'droid you’re looking for. [/QUOTE] YES! Thank you, thank you, thank you! Oh, and just to point out one more reason **DrDeth’s** site is ridiculous, it also assumes that just because Hillary won those states’ primaries, that Barack won’t win them in the General election, which is retarded. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/642 "2008-04-04T04:18:56Z")
Somebody needs to start talking to the media about Mark Penn’s multiple conflicts of interest, really. He’s the CEO of Burson-Marsteller, a PR and lobbying firm, which incidentally also employed (until last week) Charlie Black, McCain’s senior campaign advisor. Black JUST resigned from B-M (heh…didn’t notice that before!) last week, after having worked with the McCain campaign throughout the primaries. Penn is also personally handling the [Columbian Free Trade Agreement](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120726769569388303.html?mod=hps_us_whats_news) negotiations with the Columbian government as his client. His OTHER client, Hillary Clinton, is opposed to that agreement. I guess the avoidance of conflicts of interest is for lesser people… ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/643 "2008-04-04T05:06:05Z")
**DrDeth** just to jump on board, yup, if she wins most of the states left (7 out of 9) and by margins of 20% to 40% each time, keeps him down to fairly narrow victories of 10% or less in only two of the nine races that remain (NC and OR) THEN she might squeak by an extremely narrow popular vote victory (less than a third of a percent) while STILL being behind in pledged delegates by about 90. It then assumes a super delegate surge to her side that more than offsets that pledged delegate deficit. Impossible? No. Not quite. But damn near close. And it illustrates the fact that she needs to win PA by significantly more than 15% to keep even that remote chance of running the table by those amazing margins alive. Maybe Huckabee is tutoring her in miracle studies. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/644 "2008-04-04T05:08:03Z")
[QUOTE=OttoDaFe] **Shayna** et al., looks like someone beat me to it — [this YouTube video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r25wUeMAwdE) matches the one I pilfered out of the cache. Hopefully he’s the 'droid you’re looking for. [/QUOTE] I’d just like to highlight this video again, and then ask people to compare (and contrast) it against the letter he wrote to Howard Dean, imploring him not to impose sanctions. It reads in part: > [@Steven Geller](#): > > The Democratic Leadership in the Florida Senate and House of Representatives attempted to adhere to the rules of the DNC by offering amendments to keep the presidential preference primary on February 5, 2008. A copy of the amendment offered by myself and the Senate Democratic Leader Pro Tempore is included with this letter. . . But as we are still the minority party in a Republican controlled Legislature, our amendments were overwhelmingly defeated. Simply put—we were outvoted. . . > > . . . > > While you may not like the outcome, as a former governor surely you must respect the system. By threatening to punish Florida Democrats because of actions taken by Florida Republicans, it is the party as a whole which will bear the brunt of your retaliation. . . They’re really got some nerve. More maddening still, not only are they contemptible enough not to accept personal responsibility for their actions, they’re explicitly blaming Barack Obama for “disenfranchising” their voters, when he had not a damn thing to do with it! It’s not up to him to fix _their_ mess! On the good news front. . . [Oregon: 26 Elected Leaders Endorse Obama](http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/stateupdates/gGBv2S) > [@](#): > > Demonstrating how much support Sen. Obama has here in Oregon, yesterday morning on the capitol steps in Salem group of 26 elected Oregon officials enthusiastically announced their endorsement of Barack in the presidential primary. In all, nearly half of the Democrats in the state legislature are supporting Barack Obama for the Democratic nomination, including 5 senators and 19 representatives. State Treasurer Randall Edwards and State Superintendent of Public Instruction Susan Castillo were also on hand to declare their backing. > > . . . ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/645 "2008-04-04T06:14:02Z")
More good news for Obama on the superdelegate front, as well. [DC Add-ons named](http://demconwatch.blogspot.com/2008/04/dc-add-ons-named.html) > [@](#): > > The District of Columbia named its two add-ons tonight. They are: > > DC City Council members Yvette Alexander and Harry Thomas Jr . > > Alexander is an Obama supporter, while Thomas is a former Clinton supporter who is now on the fence, given his ward voted 83% for Obama. . . They’re waiting to find a direct quote from Alexander to mark her officially in the Obama column, but I do have this: > [@](#): > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/16/AR2007071601372.html](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/16/AR2007071601372.html) > > . . .Fenty’s support of Obama looked more probable recently when a Fenty adviser, Jim Hudson, organized a fundraiser for Obama that collected $600,000 **and endorsements from three D.C. Council members: Yvette M. Alexander** (D-Ward 7), Muriel Bowser (D-Ward 4) and Tommy Wells (D-Ward 6). > > . . . Fenty did go on to [endorse Obama](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/17/AR2007071701227.html), apparently that same day. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/646 "2008-04-04T06:19:44Z")
Drip… drip… drip… Trickle… ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/647 "2008-04-04T11:03:20Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] Looks like at least one pundit thinks Hil can actually win the Popular vote for the Nom, and is more likely to win the General election: [http://www.usnews.com/blogs/barone/2008/3/28/projection-clinton-wins-popular-vote-obama-wins-delegate-count.html](http://www.usnews.com/blogs/barone/2008/3/28/projection-clinton-wins-popular-vote-obama-wins-delegate-count.html) [/QUOTE] How about we call this: “Desperately Seeking [Arthur Fremantle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_fremantle#Return_to_England).” ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/648 "2008-04-04T11:36:56Z")
[New Indiana poll](http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080403/NEWS07/228212615/1129/News) from Research 2000, which is one of the better polling shops. Essentially a dead heat - Hillary’s up 49-46, with a 5% MOE. Guess Hillary’s not going to win Indiana by 20%. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/649 "2008-04-04T16:52:23Z")
Some Clinton backers are sending signals about [switching sides](http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/TheNote/story?id=3105288&page=1): \*"(Governor) Corzine, D-N.J., sends word that he’s “reserving the right” to switch to Obama if he holds on to the lead in delegates and the popular vote. “It would be a very hard argument to make if you didn’t have the delegates. I think you need at least the popular vote,” Corzine said Thursday on CNBC. Another Clinton superdelegate, Gov. Martin O’Malley, D-Md., has his finger in the wind: “I heard Nancy Pelosi say the superdelegates should not reverse the popular vote, and I think that’s a very important consideration that will weigh heavily on all the superdelegates,” O’Malley tells the Baltimore Sun." \* This is almost as tricky as Bill Richardson deciding who to support. Switch too soon, and risk the Clintons dredging up a radical Muslim babysitter from Obama’s childhood, or wait too long and be stuck backing the wrong horse? ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/650 "2008-04-04T17:09:26Z")
I really hate the sports analogies (Hillary is like the NY Giants or Rocky on the steps, or whatever). I’ve got a sports analogy. Two players are on the same team both pretty good, but one better. The worse player keeps putting up shots, not passing to the open man and being very selfish, hoping to impress get the big bucks and endorsement, but doesn’t give a crap about the team. Get it, team, not individuals. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/651 "2008-04-04T18:25:45Z")
[QUOTE=OttoDaFe] Shayna et al., looks like someone beat me to it — this YouTube video matches the one I pilfered out of the cache. Hopefully he’s the 'droid you’re looking for. [/QUOTE] This is why anything concerning Florida has it’s own tag on [Fark.com](http://Fark.com). It’s really a different scale. Who the hell did those assholes think they are anyway? After screwing up the 2000 election they pull this? I have no sympathy until Floridians can elect competent leaders. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/652 "2008-04-04T20:38:20Z")
[QUOTE=Gangster Octopus] I really hate the sports analogies (Hillary is like the NY Giants or Rocky on the steps, or whatever). I’ve got a sports analogy. Two players are on the same team both pretty good, but one better. The worse player keeps putting up shots, not passing to the open man and being very selfish, hoping to impress get the big bucks and endorsement, but doesn’t give a crap about the team. Get it, team, not individuals. [/QUOTE] Hear, hear! ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/653 "2008-04-04T20:54:12Z")
Wow, looks like the 3AM calls are economic now. Seems like if she had her shit together, she’d be able to take care of that kind of stuff during the day. Oh, and the phone rings EIGHT times in this one: [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XpaK-cGO9U) ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/654 "2008-04-04T21:06:59Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] Wow, looks like the 3AM calls are economic now. Seems like if she had her shit together, she’d be able to take care of that kind of stuff during the day. Oh, and the phone rings EIGHT times in this one: ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/8XpaK-cGO9U/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/8XpaK-cGO9U?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque [/QUOTE] We should all give it up for Hillary for at least _trying…_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/655 "2008-04-04T21:08:45Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] We should all give it up for Hillary for at least _trying…_ 😃 [/QUOTE] I’d give it up to Hillary. For the novelty factor, if nothing else. But, I guess we do have to give her credit for at least smearing McCain instead of Obama in this one. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/656 "2008-04-04T21:11:35Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] I’d give it up to Hillary. For the novelty factor, if nothing else. But, I guess we do have to give her credit for at least smearing McCain instead of Obama in this one. [/QUOTE] I saw that one when it came out and I immediately thought that Clinton was told - ahem - \*asked \* nicely to chill on her dem oppoonant so when the nomination happens at least we still have a fighting chance. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/657 "2008-04-04T21:15:58Z")
McCain would let the phone keep ringing? Is she trying to imply he’s psychic or just deaf? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/658 "2008-04-04T21:51:06Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] McCain would let the phone keep ringing? Is she trying to imply he’s psychic or just deaf? 😃 [/QUOTE] Or in the bathroom and doesn’t hear it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/659 "2008-04-04T22:10:33Z")
You’re right, at his age the bathroom is where he’d most likely be at 3 a.m. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/660 "2008-04-04T22:20:11Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] You’re right, at his age the bathroom is where he’d most likely be at 3 a.m. 😃 [/QUOTE] I will say this for him, he did spend several years in a Hanoi pit of hell and never once gave the VC any information. He’s definitely tough even for a 71 year old. But still, don’t want him as prez - [sup]don’t think he’s going to get the chance anyway[/sup] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=32) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=34)