# Fork Hillary 3: The Final Forking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726 "2008-03-18T00:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/61 "2008-03-21T21:25:39Z")
[QUOTE=ArchiveGuy] From [The New Republic](http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_plank/archive/2008/03/21/the-walter-mitty-candidate.aspx): [/QUOTE] I just watched that video footage of her quite calm and safe arrival in Bosnia. My hatred for her grows deeper by the day. _This_ is the kind of thing that _matters_. The woman is an unmitigated liar, willing to make up the most outrageous falsehoods to win an election. We’ve had a liar making up outrageous falsehoods in office for 7 years now. We don’t need another one! This kind of deep character flaw is so much more important than whether one can overlook some degree of anger and animosity in an aging minister and choose him as your spiritual mentor based in part on his good works in the community. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/62 "2008-03-21T21:26:39Z")
She’s also [hurting for money](http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/03/hillary_campaign_in_the_red.php): > [@](#): > > The latest FEC reports appear to suggest that the Hillary campaign may be in the red: > > > [@](#): > > > > Despite a strong month of fund-raising in February in which she brought in $35 million, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton finished the month essentially in the red, once her campaign’s outstanding debts are factored in, as well as her personal loan, according to filings submitted late last night to the Federal Election Commission. > > > > After spending about $31 million in her efforts to keep up with Senator Barack Obama, Mrs. Clinton finished February with more than $33 million in cash on hand, but $21.5 million of that is earmarked exclusively for the general election, leaving her with $11.7 million for the primary. > > > > Mrs. Clinton, however, loaned her campaign $5 million earlier this year and she listed $8.7 million in debts to various vendors, making clear why she has not yet paid herself back from her loan. > > It should be noted, however, that Hillary isn’t obliged to repay the $5 million debt to herself. Nonetheless, even factoring in that, once you subtract the other debts her cash on hand number would be in the neighborhood of $3 million. > > By contrast, Obama has over $30 million on hand for the primary. > > Here’s where this really hurts: With the super-delegates. The Clintons’ fundraising prowess has been one of the factors convincing the super-dels that this race isn’t over and that they should wait out the contest. Revelations like this one could make it a good deal tougher to make this case. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/63 "2008-03-21T21:35:25Z")
I never really had a problem with Clinton. But if she can’t keep from spending money like water on something relatively small like her primary campaign, how will the spending for the Middle East be if/when she’s in charge? I find that troubling. People can say Clinton and Obama are perfectly alike except for charisma, but to me the difference in the way they’ve been managing their campaigns is telling, telling, telling. ---
**Author:** ![rikc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c57346/32.png) [@rikc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rikc)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/64 "2008-03-21T21:51:54Z")
Has anything been found in Clinton’s schedules as first lady? I’ve read a few things about NAFTA meetings and such, and I’m wondering what’s most notable and if anything will affect her campaign, for best or worst. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/65 "2008-03-21T21:55:14Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] I just watched that video footage of her quite calm and safe arrival in Bosnia. My hatred for her grows deeper by the day. _This_ is the kind of thing that _matters_. The woman is an unmitigated liar, willing to make up the most outrageous falsehoods to win an election. We’ve had a liar making up outrageous falsehoods in office for 7 years now. We don’t need another one! [/QUOTE] I find it bizarre more than anything. Who let her say this when it was so easily verifiable as false? Did she learn nothing from claiming to be named after Sir Edmund Hillary? ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/66 "2008-03-21T21:55:17Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] I just watched that video footage of her quite calm and safe arrival in Bosnia. My hatred for her grows deeper by the day. _This_ is the kind of thing that _matters_. The woman is an unmitigated liar, willing to make up the most outrageous falsehoods to win an election. [/QUOTE] It’s such a stupid thing to lie about, too–since its assist is negligible and it’s easy to disprove. But they do it a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/67 "2008-03-21T21:56:45Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] I just watched that video footage of her quite calm and safe arrival in Bosnia. My hatred for her grows deeper by the day. _This_ is the kind of thing that _matters_. The woman is an unmitigated liar, willing to make up the most outrageous falsehoods to win an election. [/QUOTE] That is an amazing fabrication. I think I once said in this forum that she wasn’t all that different from other politicians, but the aura of sanctity surrounding her made her lack of candor more striking. Flat-out lying for sympathy plunges her even lower in my estimation. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/68 "2008-03-21T21:57:01Z")
[QUOTE=rikc] Has anything been found in Clinton’s schedules as first lady? I’ve read a few things about NAFTA meetings and such, and I’m wondering what’s most notable and if anything will affect her campaign, for best or worst. [/QUOTE] [From another thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=9596656&postcount=11). ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/69 "2008-03-21T21:59:52Z")
Got to wonder: Will this Bosnia fable be brought up in any debates before the Pennsylvania primary? How will she handle it, if so, when it’s so blatantly, provably false? ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/70 "2008-03-21T22:07:27Z")
[QUOTE=EddyTeddyFreddy] Got to wonder: Will this Bosnia fable be brought up in any debates before the Pennsylvania primary? How will she handle it, if so, when it’s so blatantly, provably false? [/QUOTE] A simple ad showing her safe arrival and greeting with her lying depiction of it as a voice over would be simply devastating. ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/71 "2008-03-21T22:44:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Far from running to an airport building with their heads down, Clinton and her party were greeted on the tarmac by smiling U.S. and Bosnian officials. An eight-year-old Moslem girl, Emina Bicakcic, read a poem in English. Maybe they heard the word “Bicakcic” and thought they were under machine gun fire. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/72 "2008-03-21T22:46:34Z")
[QUOTE=ArchiveGuy] It’s such a stupid thing to lie about, too–since its assist is negligible and it’s easy to disprove. But they do it a lot. [/QUOTE] I think they’ve always been of the belief that any lie they tell will stick to enough people to make ultimately make it useful. However, they are now having to contend with the huge amount of factual information widely and easily available on the internet and they find their lies coming back to bite them again and again because they are more widely disseminated than in the past and also more easily proven false. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/73 "2008-03-21T23:40:08Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] I just watched that video footage of her quite calm and safe arrival in Bosnia. My hatred for her grows deeper by the day. [/QUOTE] [It’s 3am, I must be Sinbad!](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=459377) ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/74 "2008-03-22T00:27:02Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] I think they’ve always been of the belief that any lie they tell will stick to enough people to make ultimately make it useful. However, they are now having to contend with the huge amount of factual information widely and easily available on the internet and they find their lies coming back to bite them again and again because they are more widely disseminated than in the past and also more easily proven false. [/QUOTE] Speaking of factual information, has anybody checked out the “Fact” section of her campaign website? It’s so full of lies and half truths that it’s beyond laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2008, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/75 "2008-03-22T00:54:07Z")
[QUOTE=Santo Rugger] Speaking of factual information, has anybody checked out the “Fact” section of her campaign website? It’s so full of lies and half truths that it’s beyond laughable. [/QUOTE] I can only imagine. And the thing that astounds me most of all about both Clintons is the way they can lie or pull some other underhanded shenanigan which they know everyone is hip to, and then turn right around and accuse their opponents of the same thing, acting all the while like they’d never do such a thing themselves. I’ve never seen more blatantly dishonest public figures - or any with such gall - in my entire life. Absolutely incredible. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/76 "2008-03-22T02:11:33Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] If she pulls this off, I’m voting for Nader. [/QUOTE] You mean for McCain. 😃 Apologies if this has been covered elsewhere in the numerous election threads, but I’m curious about something. Michigan and Florida were told not to hold their primaries early or else they would not be counted. Michigan and Florida unbelievably disregarded these instructions and held their primaries early. Can the voters sue the state Democratic officials for their bone-headedness? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2008, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/77 "2008-03-22T02:13:23Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] I can only imagine. And the thing that astounds me most of all about both Clintons is the way they can lie or pull some other underhanded shenanigan which they know everyone is hip to, and then turn right around and accuse their opponents of the same thing, acting all the while like they’d never do such a thing themselves. I’ve never seen more blatantly dishonest public figures - or any with such gall - in my entire life. Absolutely incredible. [/QUOTE] This is precisely why the nomination slipped out of her fingers like sand. Too bad for her she was standing on Obama’s Beach! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2008, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/78 "2008-03-22T02:17:55Z")
[QUOTE=Siam Sam] Can the voters sue the state Democratic officials for their bone-headedness? [/QUOTE] I don’t know if anyone can be sued, but it’s worth noting that this was a bipartisan thing and the state governments acted to move up the primaries for both parties. The Governor of Florida is a Republican and both houses of the legislature is controlled by Republicans. In Michigan, Republicans control the Senate and Democrats control the House, and the Governor is a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2008, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/79 "2008-03-22T02:22:52Z")
[QUOTE=Marley23] I don’t know if anyone can be sued, but it’s worth noting that this was a bipartisan thing and the state governments acted to move up the primaries for both parties. The Governor of Florida is a Republican and both houses of the legislature is controlled by Republicans. In Michigan, Republicans control the Senate and Democrats control the House, and the Governor is a Democrat. [/QUOTE] Further - if the DNC let it slide this time and sat the delegates, the system would be flawed for ever more, and it would open the gates for it happening again. **Marley** - congrats on the Modship! ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2008, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/80 "2008-03-22T02:26:02Z")
So then, what could anyone have been thinking by voting to move up the primaries after being told the votes would not count if they did? What? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=5)