# Fork Hillary 3: The Final Forking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726 "2008-03-18T00:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 67
**Author:** ![tnetennba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1321 "2008-05-08T00:14:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Mark the date: May 20. Good advice. That’s my anniversary. (Marks it on calendar.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1322 "2008-05-08T00:19:20Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Lendervedder] Bill’s not eligible for President, therefore he’s ineligible for Vice President. [/QUOTE] I remember Clinton offered the same interpretation of the 12th Amendment in 2004. He said a “reasonable reading” barred him from being VP. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1323 "2008-05-08T00:23:24Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Lendervedder] Not true. You’re forgetting the 12th Amendment: “But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.” Bill’s not eligible for President, therefore he’s ineligible for Vice President. [/QUOTE] Barring a Supreme Court case, it’s not that clear cut. Didn’t we address this question upteen times on this board? And hasn’t the result generally been that we won’t know for sure until somebody tries it? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1324 "2008-05-08T00:37:27Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Whether her campaign debt is settled will probably be of no consequence, Hillary will examine the topography of her bread and define the location of her political butter. And there is nothing else, she must, simply _must_ throw herself wholeheartedly into the BHO campaign. As much as I dislike her personally, I don’t believe for a second she would wreck the Party’s chances out of spite. [/QUOTE] Of course, overt sabotage of Obama’s chances would be suicidal. Noble words at the time of concession (which I think the odds now favor sometime in the next couple of weeks), and then support for Obama during the fall campaign - lukewarm, to be sure. It’ll be a delicate balancing act - to appear a party stalwart while already planning for 2012 and beyond. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1325 "2008-05-08T00:42:39Z")
[QUOTE=Happy Lendervedder] Not true. You’re forgetting the 12th Amendment: “But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.” [/quote] That’s what _you_ think. 😉 It’s in the ricochet off the 12th Amendment where the language of the 22nd really comes into its own. The 22nd doesn’t say Bill’s not "constitutionally ineligible to the office of President " - just that he’s not eligible to be elected again. He can become President again, just not by election, so he can be Veep under the 12th. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1326 "2008-05-08T00:42:52Z")
[QUOTE=hajario] That’s how I took it and I totally agree. I voted for Barack in the primary and I will vote for him again but there’s a segment of Obama supporters that annoy the ever loving shit out of me far and away more than any other candidate’s I have ever experienced. [/QUOTE] Exactly. Myself, I am a Gore man, but I will have no qualms voting for Obama in November. He’s fine. Some of his supporters… ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1327 "2008-05-08T02:11:32Z")
Thinking about it, was does Hillary gain by exiting? Once she exits, she loses all her leverage, right? I don’t see her wanting the VP slot, and I don’t see Obama offering it to her, but maybe something else…? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1328 "2008-05-08T03:12:08Z")
I have to admit, I was expected more supers today. They seem to be willing to let Clinton just Huckabee herself and let the primaries play out until at least Oregon. I wonder if that slow descent into pathetic insignificance would end up actually helping Obama in the long run more than a grandglorious concession now would? Will Clintonistas just gradually lose their enthuiasm and rally round the presumptive nominee without her telling them to? ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1329 "2008-05-08T03:28:33Z")
**DSeid** , I actually heard some analyst making that argument today (somewhere…NPR?). Obama doesn’t want to appear to be cruel and totally turn the Clinton supporters against him, so the drip of supers will continue. If he sort of gently assumes the nomination instead of going for the slam dunk at this point, it’ll make it a little less painful. Don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1330 "2008-05-08T05:34:44Z")
Well clearly there are some who like Donna Brazile are [undeclared but not undecided.](http://thepage.time.com/transcript-from-cnns-election-center/) > [@](#): > > BROWN: Hold on. I want to ask Donna something. > > Hold on. > > I want to ask Donna something because you have been on these panels > time and time again with us as an undecided voter, and you sound very > much – > > BRAZILE: I’m not undecided. > > BROWN: Uncommitted? > > BRAZILE: I’m undeclared. > > BROWN: Undeclared. There you go. > > Well it sounds very much – > > Hey, no – > > BRAZILE: Words matter. > > BROWN: Words matter. > > It sounds very much to me tonight like you have made up your mind. > > BRAZILE: No. It sounds like I am ready to unify my party. I’m > ready to bring the party back together and I’m sick and tired of hearing > people say my party, my party. This is the Democratic Party. We have > stood through thick and thin and I’m sick of the divisions. That’s all > I’m saying. Now why they feel they are doing their duty to unify the party by holding off on declaring their decision is a matter of speculation. But I think that they see that Hillary is only marginalizing herself at this point and that Obama can safely cede her rope while beginning to pivot. She cannot go very negative from her or they will call it. Even huge blow-outs in the next several and an Oregon upset wouldn’t be game changers. They want to give her every chance to go gracefully and to maximize the potential for healing inside the party. So it will apparently just drip along. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1331 "2008-05-08T06:36:56Z")
But how is she going to keep running? [With what?](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/may/07/hillaryclinton.barackobama1) > [@](#): > > Her campaign’s most recent finance report showed she was virtually broke, owing more on unpaid bills than she had on hand. > > “Senator Clinton is in debt, and her campaign is in a position where it is going to be hard to raise enough money to repay the debt,” said Michael Malbin, executive director of the Campaign Finance Institute, a Washington research organisation. … According to Clinton’s latest campaign finance report, at the end of March the campaign owed $10.3m in unpaid bills but had only $9.3m available to spend on the primary election. … If Clinton’s campaign is unable to repay the $11.4m she’s lent it, federal law allows the debt to be converted to a contribution that needn’t be reimbursed. > > However, the roughly $10.3m in debt Clinton’s campaign owed on unpaid bills at the end of March must be repaid or otherwise settled. That is because federal law bars candidates from accepting in-kind contributions from companies. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1332 "2008-05-08T12:50:13Z")
Superdelegate David Bonior, campaign manager for John Edwards, [endorses Obama.](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/edwards-campaig.html) By my count, Hillary’s lead in the superdelegates is now down to 10. Drip. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1333 "2008-05-08T12:56:00Z")
Hard to see how she can win the nomination now. Of course, that’s been hard to see for more than a month, and yet she keeps running. I predict, soon after the last primary on June 3, she’ll withdraw, with a speech about being proud of having given every last voter a chance to be heard. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1334 "2008-05-08T13:00:34Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] Hard to see how she can win the nomination now. Of course, that’s been hard to see for more than a month, and yet she keeps running. I predict, soon after the last primary on June 3, she’ll withdraw, with a speech about being proud for having given every voter a chance to be heard. [/QUOTE] I agree. Somewhere in that speech I hope is a declaration of unity for the party and support for the nominee. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1335 "2008-05-08T13:27:14Z")
[QUOTE=Phlosphr] I agree. Somewhere in that speech I hope is a declaration of unity for the party and support for the nominee. [/QUOTE] She already did that in her victory speech in Indiana. I too think the supers (and maybe even Obama) are trying to help Hill save face by slowly announcing delegates for Obama. I also think that her continued run is more about raising funds than winning the nomination. And, lastly, I think that the Secrect Service will have to beat the woman down this Janurary when the new POTUS is giving his inagural speech as she attempts to rush the stage and grab the mic. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1336 "2008-05-08T13:44:29Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Thinking about it, was does Hillary gain by exiting? [/QUOTE] Aside from saving her last shred of dignity, she gains the ability to run for (and probably win) Senate Majority Leader, as well as the ability to run for (and maybe win) Governor of New York in 2010. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1337 "2008-05-08T14:01:42Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Aside from saving her last shred of dignity, she gains the ability to run for (and probably win) Senate Majority Leader,… [/QUOTE] But how does she do that? From what I’m reading she’s not well liked in the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1338 "2008-05-08T14:09:09Z")
**John** there is also the fact that she is only 61. Presume she really believes that Obama is unelectable. She wants to start off her campaign for 2012’s election, which would begin in January 2009, off without being blamed for that loss. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1339 "2008-05-08T14:13:58Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] But how does she do that? From what I’m reading she’s not well liked in the Senate. [/QUOTE] Doesn’t matter. The dynamic for that sort of closed election is very different from the dynamic of a broader general election or primary. You can freely schmooz and grease palms. You can make promises that you can actually keep. You trade favors, and even call on outside people (lobbyists, former presidents, and so forth) to woo people on your behalf. It’s all very secretive and backroomy. It’s perfectly suited to her skills. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1340 "2008-05-08T15:06:57Z")
[QUOTE=Biggirl] She already did that in her victory speech in Indiana. I too think the supers (and maybe even Obama) are trying to help Hill save face by slowly announcing delegates for Obama. I also think that her continued run is more about raising funds than winning the nomination. And, lastly, I think that the Secrect Service will have to beat the woman down this Janurary when the new POTUS is giving his inagural speech as she attempts to rush the stage and grab the mic. [/QUOTE] LMAO!! 😃 just the visual of that is appealing! Oh I can’t wait to hear his inaugural speech! Or his first state of the union. Won’t it be wonderful to have someone with great elocution instead of the Howdy-Doody Doll duh…duh…duh… we’ve been sujected to? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=66) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=68)