# Fork Hillary 3: The Final Forking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726 "2008-03-18T00:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 71
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1401 "2008-05-08T19:38:15Z")
You know what pisses me off about the Hill-Dawg? She is criticizing Obama for being unable to win over the working-class white people. By saying this is her base, she is implicitly saying that she will win the other traditional democratic groups (educated elite, blacks, etc…). Personally I don’t think it’s offensive what she said. It’s true. She gets a lot of support from working-class whites. She stated it in a stupid way, but whatever. I am happy that it’s bringing her down though, because I’m sick of her shit. WTF is going on with the super-delegates though? If my representation hadn’t already endorsed, then I’d never vote for them in a subsequent election. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1402 "2008-05-08T19:57:04Z")
What I don’t understand is the assertion by Sen. Clinton that, because she has more support from “hard-working” whites, and does better with Democratic-leaning independents, that she has a “broader base” from which to launch her effort at the White House, should she be the nominee. The results seem to indicate that her base is at best exactly the same size as Sen. Obama’s base, given that they’ve managed to split the vote and the delegates damn near down the middle, though she’s behind in both (where they both contested the outcome). Where is this “broader base” of which she speaks? ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1403 "2008-05-08T19:58:07Z")
Oh, for Pete’s sake! I’m an Obama supporter, but Hillary Clinton is not the devil, nor is she a racist, nor does this statement imply that she is one. If you watched the youtube cite above, it’s pretty obvious that she corrected herself from “working-” to “hard-working” because she was about to say “working-class,” which many would have considered insulting. And she added “white” because the magazines or newspapers she was paraphrasing had said white and because the polls have been showing the racially divided figures, not because she thinks only whites work hard. You’d have been all over her if she had said “all working-class Americans” because it wouldn’t have been true for the black working-class. And even if she had truly thought that only white people worked hard, she wouldn’t be stupid enough to say so - and not even her worst enemy has accused Clinton of being stupid! Finally, she wasn’t saying that she was doing better; she was saying that several prominant news organizations were saying it, which I assume is true or she wouldn’t have said it (being that it’s so easily disproved). As to why she said it at all, well, she has to come up with something hopeful until she actually decides to throw in the towel. If there were articles suggesting she was picking up steam among a good sized demographic, that was something she could put forward. It’s not necessary to hate Clinton in order to support Obama better. Why do you force the worst possible interpretation on her words and actions? If the worst thing she’s ever said is that quote, she’s led a pretty blameless existence. I don’t think she’s the best person in the world, and as I said, I’ve long since decided to support Obama, but in some ways I think Clinton would make a very good president, and if she magically became president I wouldn’t think it a bad thing. (well, I would because the democratic process would have been by-passed and also because I’d be forced to believe in magic, but not because she ended up as president). Holy Christmas, you folks are going directly against the message Obama has been trying to convey - you shouldn’t hate your opponent, but rather find a way to work with him or her. You can be for someone or something without thinking the alternative is the anti-Christ. Of course, when it comes to the Republicans, by all means go to town! ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1404 "2008-05-08T19:58:17Z")
Here’s a super delegate for today -[Montana’s Jean Lemire Dahlman](http://rawstory.com/news/2008/EXCLUSIVE_Montana_superdelegate_declares_for_Obama_0508.html) ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1405 "2008-05-08T20:01:37Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] Where is this “broader base” of which she speaks? [/QUOTE] It supports her every time she sits down. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1406 "2008-05-08T20:16:15Z")
And another new superdelegate for Obama today, North Carolina Congressman, Brad Miller. > [@Brad Miller](#): > > “I will cast my vote as a delegate in Denver for Senator Barack Obama. The decision was not easy. Senator Clinton has run an impressive campaign, and has spoken eloquently to the concerns to working and middle class American families. She is one of the great leaders of this generation.” > > “Senator Obama understands that he has the chance not just to win the election this year, but to be a great president. Americans know that Republican policies have failed because their ideas are wrong. Americans know that our government has not acted to use Franklin Roosevelt’s words, as trustees for the whole people, but have taken the side of powerful economic interests on every issue. Americans want a fundamental change in course.” > > “Senator Obama seized that opportunity.” > > “If Senator Obama and Democratic candidates up and down the ticket win this year and then deliver next year, we can build a consensus that will last a generation.” > > [http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/08/997424.aspx](http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/08/997424.aspx) ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1407 "2008-05-08T20:29:36Z")
I am disturbed by all the suggestions that Obama will offer Clinton the VP spot. That would give a lot of Republicans who are thinking about voting for him pause, including myself. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1408 "2008-05-08T20:32:04Z")
[QUOTE=Absolute] I am disturbed by all the suggestions that Obama will offer Clinton the VP spot. That would give a lot of Republicans who are thinking about voting for him pause, including myself. [/QUOTE] I believe the consensus, at least on these boards, is it would be a terrible idea. My personal feeling is it would hand the election to McCain on a platter. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1409 "2008-05-08T20:32:28Z")
[QUOTE=Absolute] I am disturbed by all the suggestions that Obama will offer Clinton the VP spot. That would give a lot of Republicans who are thinking about voting for him pause, including myself. [/QUOTE] There’s no way it’s going to happen. It’s like asking the jackass who to just mugged you for a ride to work. It’s not going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1410 "2008-05-08T20:34:21Z")
[QUOTE=DSYoungEsq] Where is this “broader base” of which she speaks? [/QUOTE] In her mind. It’s pure political spin, nothing more. Did anyone see George Will’s column today (at least it was today in my paper)? It’s pretty funny, even if you don’t like Will. He does a good job of lampooning Hillary’s spin about how she is still a viable candidate and that she is in the lead by some measures. ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1411 "2008-05-08T20:48:10Z")
[QUOTE=Oy!] \ she was saying that several prominant news organizations were saying it, which I assume is true or she wouldn’t have said it (being that it’s so easily disproved).\ [/QUOTE] You know what they say about assuming… :smack: 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1412 "2008-05-08T20:48:48Z")
After today, I’ll be surprised if she doesn’t demand counting only 3/5 of black votes. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1413 "2008-05-08T20:58:01Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] I’ve not had much luck in the past going to myspace pages, but anything by **Sampiro** is going to be must-see. Unfortunately, myspace is blocked from my current site. **Sampiro** , in case you were intending to make this page unviewable by the public, please hold off on that until tomorrow. [/QUOTE] I fear you overestimate my photo-editing capabilities. 😉 Nevertheless, if Flickr is permissible, [try this one](http://www.flickr.com/photos/54557344@N00/2476994074/). ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1414 "2008-05-08T20:58:28Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] After today, I’ll be surprised if she doesn’t demand counting only 3/5 of black votes. [/QUOTE] 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1415 "2008-05-08T21:45:39Z")
And another Superdelegate for Obama today; Representative Rick Larson. > [@](#): > > Rep. Rick Larsen said Thursday that he is endorsing Barack Obama for president. > > Larsen, a four-term Democrat who represents Everett, Bellingham and other areas north of Seattle, said Obama was “the best candidate to turn our best hopes for a better future into reality.” > > Obama’s performance this week in primaries in North Carolina and Indiana show “he can take a pounding and come back strong to deliver his message of hope and change. He is tough as nails,” Larsen said. > > . . . > > [Client Challenge](http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/6420ap_wa_washington_superdelegates.html) ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1416 "2008-05-08T21:49:14Z")
[QUOTE=Shayna] And another Superdelegate for Obama today; Representative Rick Larson. [/QUOTE] Clinton’s superdelegate lead is down to single digits, baby! ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1417 "2008-05-08T21:52:33Z")
I’m starting to wonder how Hillary herself sincerely believes she still has a chance to win. Underneath all the political smoke and rhetoric, what’s really going on in that head of hers? Is she so exceptionally cynical and selfish that she’s willing to risk damaging her party? I know a lot of people would say yes to that but I don’t believe it. I suspect something more akin to a deep personal denial. She’s probably been expecting to become the first woman President since grade school. Everything in her life and career has been geared to that one goal. She’s been taking it for granted that it will happen. She expects it like she expects snow in the winter. She thinks it’s her fate and she just can’t believe it’s not happening now. Coming to grips with not being the one to make history is a tough pill for her to swallow. So much so that she’s refusing to accept reality and persisting in self-delusion. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1418 "2008-05-08T21:56:00Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] I suspect something more akin to a deep personal denial. She’s probably been expecting to become the first woman President since grade school. Everything in her life and career has been geared to that one goal. She’s been taking it for granted that it will happen. She expects it like she expects snow in the winter. She thinks it’s her fate and she just can’t believe it’s not happening now. [/QUOTE] Cue the video: [Hillary’s Inner Tracy Flick](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rleUPHX8yfM). ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1419 "2008-05-08T21:56:48Z")
Great comment from an Andrew Sullivan [reader](http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/05/clinton-channel.html) > [@](#): > > Hillary’s hanging on to the contest dramatically proves to me that she is unfit to be our president. It is so Bush-like, is it not? It’s her Iraq. She has obviously failed, yet she keeps on just to prove she’s not a quitter. Where have we heard that lately? How can we depend on her? Like Bush, she cannot admit a mistake. She can’t admit failure. She is not rational. She’ll take us down with her. > > We need a rational president so badly. One who makes decisions based on careful consideration of all the facts and understands the real risks and likelihood of success. Hillary is running her campaign into the ground financially. Is that what we want in a president? Someone who uses fear and divisiveness to appeal to people? > > Her campaign alone is a reason to vote against her. ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2008, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1420 "2008-05-08T21:58:44Z")
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