# Fork Hillary 3: The Final Forking **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 18, 2008, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726 "2008-03-18T00:01:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 83
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1641 "2008-05-14T21:57:21Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] Just confirmed on CNN! 'bout freaking time he did. BTW, **Lib** , past – and rather bitter I might add – political arguments aside, I am really, really glad you see this man in the same light I do. Namely, while he is certainly not perfect, I think he represents the best choice the US has had in a looong time in terms of doing the greater good for the majority of Americans – and almost by default, due to your nation’s immense power, for the rest of the world. We _really_ need to come together. Glad to have you on-board. [/QUOTE] Thanks. That means a lot to me. On the matter of Edwards’ endorsement, keep in mind that he brings with him 19 delegates. It really does matter. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1642 "2008-05-14T22:03:19Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Thanks. That means a lot to me. On the matter of Edwards’ endorsement, k **eep in mind that he brings with him 19 delegates**. It really does matter. [/QUOTE] …who can vote for anyone they want. (bolding mine) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1643 "2008-05-14T22:03:52Z")
[QUOTE=Darryl Lict] [NARAL](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/05/naral_endorses.html), the National Abortion Rights Action League, endorses Obama. Ouch, that’s got to hurt, Hillary being a woman and all. [/QUOTE] I stopped giving to EMILY’s List when they endorsed Hillary more than a year ago, before the first primary or caucus vote was cast. Hello? Ya wanna wait to see what the Democratic electorate has to say, maybe? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1644 "2008-05-14T22:10:27Z")
[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir] “We’re going to the White House!” [/QUOTE] “…and we’re Gonna get ma-a-a-ried…” Now I’ve got that stupid song in my head. Thanks a bunch. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1645 "2008-05-14T23:00:10Z")
[QUOTE=Darryl Lict] [NARAL](http://www.boston.com/news/politics/politicalintelligence/2008/05/naral_endorses.html), the National Abortion Rights Action League, endorses Obama. Ouch, that’s got to hurt, Hillary being a woman and all. [/QUOTE] Well, Obama is clearly in favor of uterUS while Hillary’s all about uterME. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1646 "2008-05-14T23:42:38Z")
[QUOTE=kevja] And what the hell is up with Obama wearing a flag pin? [/QUOTE] True patriotism is shown through the wearing of trinkets (that were made in China, no less). I hope that doesn’t mean he’s decided he needs to pander to the WHAT’S WRONG WITH YOU IF YOU DON’T HAVE 17 FLAGS WITHIN 5 FEET AT ALL TIMES? crowd. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2008, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1647 "2008-05-14T23:43:32Z")
[QUOTE=kevja] How brave of Edwards. :rolleyes: Talk about jumping on the bandwagon late. And what the hell is up with Obama wearing a flag pin? [/QUOTE] no kidding. I’ve lost so much respect for him for not endorsing. Why the hell is he endorsing now? He’s chosen the worst of both worlds. He refused to endorse when it mattered, and endorses when it doesn’t matter making him look like a coward. He could have just not endorsed and came out looking like a guy who preferred not to. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1648 "2008-05-15T00:13:29Z")
[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe] no kidding. I’ve lost so much respect for him for not endorsing. Why the hell is he endorsing now? He’s chosen the worst of both worlds. He refused to endorse when it mattered, and endorses when it doesn’t matter making him look like a coward. He could have just not endorsed and came out looking like a guy who preferred not to. [/QUOTE] Though it’s coming later than I would’ve liked, I don’t agree that his endorsement doesn’t matter. Per [Salon](http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2008/05/14/edwards_endorsement/index.html): > [@](#): > > But Edwards’ endorsement, and the timing of it, has some real potential for strategic importance to the Obama campaign. Clinton won a big victory over Obama in West Virginia’s Democratic primary on Tuesday, and Clinton was scheduled to be all over the evening newscasts, to which she had given interviews, on Wednesday night. The Edwards endorsement took the wind out of those sails and the narrative away from Clinton – and, importantly, from discussion about the potential weaknesses Obama would have as the Democratic nominee. Edwards’ base was in the white working-class voters Obama has had trouble wooing and who went against him on Tuesday; whether he can actually help bring those votes to Obama might not matter as much, for the moment, as whether the political world and political media assumes it will and goes off to discussing other topics. The endorsement was also one more potent image of a party whose establishment continues to coalesce around Obama as the likely nominee. > > Edwards also carries with him what the AP estimates to be 19 pledged delegates. Like every other elected delegate at the Democratic convention, they’re not really bound to vote for the candidate they’re pledged to, and they’re not required to vote for Obama because of Edwards’ endorsement either. Still, it seems fairly safe to assume that at least some will jump to Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1649 "2008-05-15T00:25:05Z")
Nothing is really going to change what happens in the last few primaries, but this endorsement is significant in one way: Edwards was one of those people who was waiting to find out where his bread was going to be buttered, and the same is likely true for NARAL. This shows that those people have finally located the margerine. I suspect those people contacted Obama after North Carolina and Indiana voted, and the campaign had them wait until the day after this expected West Virginia loss. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1650 "2008-05-15T00:31:27Z")
[QUOTE=Onomatopoeia] …who can vote for anyone they want. [/QUOTE] That’s true of every delegate. Usually, however, the delegates are assigned based on their declared loyalty so that they are most likely to vote with the candidate who won them. But even if Edwards can persuade only 12 of his 19, it still erases what Hillary did in West Virgina. ETA: The timing was perfect. It practically knocked West Virginia out of the news cycle. Obama’s timing has always been meticulous. He’s an excellent manager. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1651 "2008-05-15T00:54:54Z")
Can’t resist the temptation here… When did Hillary get this “populist” label? I remember reading some exit interviews with WV voters yesterday where several of them expressed their reasons for voting for Hillary, but then declared that they wouldn’t be voting for Obama. What is it exactly that they think Hillary will do for them that Obama won’t? Are their platforms that radically different? ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1652 "2008-05-15T01:08:01Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] That’s true of every delegate. Usually, however, the delegates are assigned based on their declared loyalty so that they are most likely to vote with the candidate who won them. But even if Edwards can persuade only 12 of his 19, it still erases what Hillary did in West Virgina. ETA: The timing was perfect. It practically knocked West Virginia out of the news cycle. Obama’s timing has always been meticulous. He’s an excellent manager. [/QUOTE] I agree, his managerial process is phenom…it’s getting to be cliche to say that his behaviour now will reflect in his presidency, but damn it, even if we get 40% of his current behaviour it will be eons better than the sitting goofball. I can’t wait to hear his speeches! I’m pretty psyched **Lib** that you are such an Obama fan, not that I would have thought you would have liked anyone else…but.🙂 I meet more people simply talking about Barack than I do at business lunches and social event combined! His grassroots efforts are giving a lot of people a lot of hope for their own grassroots ventures. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1653 "2008-05-15T01:17:08Z")
Where did Hillary get the Populist label? I’d say sometime before Ohio. She was working on the “experience” meme then. Remember “Ready on Day One”? I haven’t heard that in a while. Anyway she seems to be from every conceivable rust-belt state there is, right? She’s from Pennsylvania, Indiana , Illinois, and New York! Although Chappaqua isn’t exactly Rust Belt! Honestly, **Liberal** , I gotta admit that i’m surprised to see you in Obama’s corner. From what I remember you used to have a very strong libertarian bent. Is that true? Seems like you’ve gone through a change in ideology. Just curious. Your wit is a lot more enjoyable when you’re on my team 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1654 "2008-05-15T01:26:56Z")
[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe] Where did Hillary get the Populist label? [/QUOTE] Ohio sounds about right - her strategy always involved appealing to the old school Democratic bases, and around that time I think she discovered that she could get a lot of play by appealing to those voters. In the end I think that’s sort of the same thing that sank her campaign: by the book, she did everything right. When she ran for the Senate, she spent a lot of time in upstate New York and she worked to appease the more conservative voters up there. When she got to the Senate, she worked with Lindsey Graham and even Newt Gingrich to shore up her ability to run to the middle in the general. She pandered and played to all the right groups who have formed the Democratic base for a long while. But Obama didn’t always play by the book. He excited other groups and connected with people in a way her moves didn’t. Her general idea was to win _enough_ - people here talk about how it’s 50 percent plus 1 - he seemed to have bigger ideas, and that appealed to people. I have no idea what’s going to happen in the next six months, but in some ways I wonder if this will be a realigning election. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1655 "2008-05-15T01:47:39Z")
Is the flag pin the one the veteran gave to him? If it is, then it has meaning, and is consistent with his values to wear it. The point is that an _arbitrary_ flag pin is meaningless. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1656 "2008-05-15T02:01:56Z")
[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe] Honestly, **Liberal** , I gotta admit that i’m surprised to see you in Obama’s corner. From what I remember you used to have a very strong libertarian bent. Is that true? Seems like you’ve gone through a change in ideology. Just curious. Your wit is a lot more enjoyable when you’re on my team 😉 [/QUOTE] I appreciate that very much, but the reason I support Obama is that he himself has “a very strong libertarian bent”. 🙂 I believe that America’s free market has been the engine of America’s great progress. It’s created a prosperity that is the envy of the world. It’s led to a standard of living unmatched in history. And it has provided great rewards to the innovators and risk-takers who have made America a beacon for science, and technology, and discovery.Barack Obama, New York, NY, September 17, 2007 ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1657 "2008-05-15T02:03:44Z")
[QUOTE=Merkwurdigliebe] Honestly, **Liberal** , I gotta admit that i’m surprised to see you in Obama’s corner. From what I remember you used to have a very strong libertarian bent. Is that true? Seems like you’ve gone through a change in ideology. Just curious. Your wit is a lot more enjoyable when you’re on my team 😉 [/QUOTE] **Liberal** certainly does not need anyone to speak for him, but he has explained his support for Obama quite convincingly in other places. But many of Liberal’s reasons I have gleaned from his posts are mine as well: Obama stands for moving away from the extremely nasty, divisive crap that has plagued American politics, especially since 2000. Obama is inspiring as all hell when he speaks, and in the right kind of ways: embracing liberty, a transparent government, and restoring American respectability abroad by actually making use of diplomacy once again. Obama is also a moderate when it comes to fiscal issues, and has some top-notch economists as advisers. He speaks to his constituency like we’re grownups; there’s a refreshing absence of gross pandering (like that ill-advised gas tax holiday.) Ah, and there he is now. Anyway. It’s not hard to see how a libertarian could like Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1658 "2008-05-15T03:47:57Z")
Well said, **Knorf** , and welcome aboard, **Liberal**! ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1659 "2008-05-15T04:25:17Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Three new endorsements today for Obama: Obama also picked up endorsements today from three former chairmen of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission: Democratic appointee Arthur Levitt and Republican appointees William Donaldson and David Ruder. They said Obama is a leader who can "take us to a stronger and more secure economic future.''[http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ankKaKOOT1K8&refer=home](http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=ankKaKOOT1K8&refer=home) [/QUOTE] What with the Edwards endorsement this bit of news is getting short shrift. These three former SEC commissioners join Paul Volker, former Fed Chairman, in endorsing Obama. These are serious endorsements of his economic chops and may end up having more of a positive effect on Wall Street powerbrokers than Edwards’ bookend endorsement has on the “working class”. [The Wall Street Journal](http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121073227421390697.html?mod=googlenews_wsj) has certainly favored McCain overall, but their article on this bit of news is telling. > [@](#): > > The endorsements, especially that of Republican appointee Mr. Donaldson, could give a boost to Mr. Obama in the general election this fall. … The endorsements come on top of the lead Sen. Obama and the Democrats have shown in securing campaign contributions from employees of Wall Street firms this election cycle. Through March, the latest data available, employees of banking and finance companies have favored Democratic presidential candidates over Republicans by 55% to 45%, according to [OpenSecrets.org](http://OpenSecrets.org), a campaign finance Web site operated by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics. Among candidates over that period, Sen. Obama has raised the most – about $9 million – with Sen. Clinton raising $8.5 million. Sen. McCain has raised $5.7 million from those employees … as public discontent with the current administration grows and the economy continues to flirt with recession, Sen. McCain hasn’t kept up with the Democrats. … Wall Street may remain leery of Sen. McCain; the Republican candidate has offered few concrete proposals for improving the nation’s financial outlook and preventing future crises in the credit markets. Although he has begun speaking more frequently about the economy, Sen. McCain has repeatedly said his expertise is foreign policy, not markets. Yes, McCain may try to shore up his image there by choosing an economically capable VP, like Chris Cox, but for now it is Obama who is getting the nod when the question is the stewardship of our economic ship. ---
**Author:** ![Flipshod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f19dbf/32.png) [@Flipshod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flipshod)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2008, 10:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726/1660 "2008-05-15T10:20:06Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] “I am the one I’ve been waiting for!” [/QUOTE] 😃 That’s definitely Hillary’s slogan. Too funny. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=82) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/fork-hillary-3-the-final-forking/441726.md?page=84)